ip issues

[HeatCker]

once your regs are properly serviced with new parts, and assuming a usage of say 30-50 FRESH WATER dives per year, and assuming proper after dive rinsing/care ...
1 - how long should regs normally stay "in tune/with-in factory setting" ??
2 - what causes ip issues, what causes ip to creep ??
3 - is it common for ip to creep above factory setting over the course of a year ??
i have a couple of buddies, paul and jim, that just got their gear back from the shop, they get their gear serviced every year, different shops, shop A and B.
paul was told by shop A that he had an ip reading of 175 (apeks regs) before servicing and he only did about 10 dives this year, to busy with work commitments.
jim just experienced a free flow during a dive, 33 F water temp, took his regs in to the shop to make sure everything was ok, found out his ip was way above factory spec's, shop B.
it surprised me that both had high ip issues as both get their gear serviced annually by different shops.
i believe both reg sets are sealed diaphragm, not piston, i've never heard them speak of packing their regs with lube.
just curious and thought i'd ask and try to learn something from you guys that know .... thanks

 

[Neilwood]

If the gear is not serviced well, that can actually cause some of the issues mentioned. The other thing is how well are they maintained between services - are they properly rinsed and dried? If you dive and just put them away, there is a fair chance of salt crystallisation or damage.

A lot of service techs will set the regs to be on the very edge of freeflow. Detuning the reg by even a small amount will actually affect the the breathing characteristic very little but will go a long way to stopping freeflows etc.

 

[Scared Silly]

In a piston reg IP creep is caused by a poor seal between the piston and HP seat. That usually occurs after lots of usage. But as said above poor maintenance can cause issues. I just serviced a reg that was put away wet and as a result had a fair amount of corrosion. It cleaned up well enough with an ultrasonic bath.

 

[divad]

My Zeagles go 4 to 5 years before they start to creep. Get an IP gauge you can plug into your LP inflator hose and check the IP every dive.....that reminds me......

 

[guruboy]

Are they diving salt or fresh?

 

[Couv]

assuming a usage of say 30-50 fresh water dives per year, and assuming proper after dive rinsing/care ...
how long should regs normally stay "in tune/with-in factory setting" ??

Years.

what causes ip issues, what causes ip to creep ??

Again, assuming proper care-poorly serviced is the answer.

is it common for ip to creep above factory setting over the course of a year ??

No.

one was told he had an ip reading of 175

"Told" is the operative word. Does he have his own IP gauge? If no, buy him one for Christmas.

free flow, 33 F water temp

Could just be "freeze flow." Did it freeflow after it was warmed up? But, an IP check is the place to start. There's another Christmas present out of the way. If the IP is OK, perhaps just a tweak of the second stage is all that's needed.

both get their gear serviced annually.

Please see, and refer your friends to this sticky. Regulator Inspection and Checklist (Rev-7)

 

[HeatCker]

thanks for the info guys, i'm passing this on to my dive buddies
one ip gauge is already on order
thanks again

 

[tbone1004]

once your regs are properly serviced with new parts, and assuming a usage of say 30-50 fresh water dives per year, and assuming proper after dive rinsing/care ...
how long should regs normally stay "in tune/with-in factory setting" ??
what causes ip issues, what causes ip to creep ??
is it common for ip to creep above factory setting over the course of a year ??
i have a couple of buddies that just got their gear back from the shop, they get their gear serviced every year, different shops.
one was told he had an ip reading of 175 (apeks) before servicing and he only did about 10 dives this year, to busy with work commitments.
the other just experienced a free flow, 33 F water temp, took his regs in to the shop to make sure everything was ok, found out his ip was way above factory spec's.
it surprised me that both had high ip issues as both get their gear serviced annually.
just curious and thought i'd ask and try to learn something from you guys that know .... thanks

answering in order
1. it depends on the reg, but it is based largely on cycle count, not time
2. typically the hard seat takes an indent from the crown. IP is controlled by spring pressure and when the seat wears in, the spring pressure changes which causes the IP to change. Poseidon regulators are notorious for taking a LONG time for the seat to stabilize IP *several hundred cycles*. The indent can also have an imperfect seal which is what causes IP to creep. This can be from the crown, debris, whole host of other factors
3. no

175 is WAY too high for an Apeks, the only reg on the market that can tolerate that IP is the Poseidon Cyclon. If the reg wasn't freeflowing, then that was a gauge calibration error. 175 will cause the second stages to freeflow quite a bit if they were tuned for factory settings.
If freeflow guy took it to the same shop, it's likely their gauge is bad

 

[HeatCker]

couv
"Told" is the operative word. .... i think that might be the issue
possibly a way to charge for a full service vs a simple cleaning and adjustment

tbone
i never even thought of the higher ip, 175 for apeks, possibly making the reg dry freeflow when hooked to a full tank.
paul usually gets his regs tuned to a slight free flow then uses his diver adjustment knob.
or the possibility that the shops gauge is off.
both guys use different shops, different gauges.

thanks for the input guys

 

[herman]

A couple of things off the top of my head.
First off, are you describing creep- the slow continuous increase of IP over a short time- ie, watching the gauge slowly increase or are you describing IP shift (my term for it), the long term change in IP that occurs due to mechanical changes in the reg, the soft seat taking a set for example. Creep is never a good thing. Short of poor diver maintenance, regs, esp diaphragm regs should go many many years before creeping sets in. It is not unusual for regs to shift IP slightly over time due to soft materials taking a set. This is gradual and usually stops after a few months. We are talking about less than 10 PSI and over a long term. IF a reg is set to it's upper limits and the seconds are set to close to freeflow a slight tweek is not uncommon to compensate for shift. Unless a tech is specifically ask to do this by a customer, he is asking for a return to fix a slight freeflow. 175 PSI is way above any normal shift.

It makes me wonder if the regs are actually being serviced.....fully dissembled, cleaned and NEW parts installed or are they being cleaned up a bit, IP checked and returned as "serviced". You should always demand that any parts removed from the reg during service be returned to you. While easy to fake, it does give you a little bit of confidence the reg was actually serviced. For most regs, a quick internet search will turn up a parts diagram that list the normal service parts, compare them. If nothing else, take a photo of the parts returned on the next service and compare any you get back on later services. Any BS about not being allowed to return the parts for any reason is a big red flag something is not right.

No diaphragm reg should be "packed with lube", some older regs (Conshelfs for example) that used a silicone oil between the main and environmental diaphragm but most of them have been converted to a dry method.

In any case, get yourself an IP gauge and learn how to use it. If you don't service your own regs, at least you can keep track of their health.