Interesting class to attend

[MXGratefulDiver]

I worry for that divers safety once he's on his own. I've read of dive OP's requiring a checkout dive to assess skills before the 'real' dives of the trip. Shouldn't a skills assessment be required before a course such as a deep diving certification?

Yes it should ... particularly for deep diving. I routinely did a checkout dive with any student who wanted to take a class from me other than the OW class, because I wanted to know what I had to work with. It would sometimes be the case that I would recommend a different class, or more dives if I felt they were not ready for the class they wanted to take. But I was an independent instructor, and not reliant on a business model that relied on dive cert numbers and churn ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[yle]

By skills assessment I assume we're talking about at least doing some skills in a pool, no? If not, what sort of assessment?
The course overview in my 10 year old manual doesn't specify actual diving for an assessment.
John, I know you are very familiar with all the PADI standards--can you quote the assessment requirement for me?

From Page 30 of the PADI IM:

"Risk Mitigation, Professional Judgment
and Responsibility
Conduct risk assessments for your student divers by evaluating
diver, environmental, equipment, physical and psychological
variables (as described in PADI’s Guide to Teaching) during PADI
courses and programs. Always err on the side of caution and
conservatism when making decisions and applying judgment in
your PADI programs.
Train divers to minimize stress and anxiety and to avoid panic
in the water. Recognize outward signs of diver anxiety and panic
and stay focused so nothing distracts you from intervening with a
person who is stressed and anxious.
Be vigilant and diligent in your duties. See Member Code of
Practice in the Commitment to Excellence section."

In general, PADI doesn't prescribe exactly how an instructor should assess a diver, but the message is pretty clear: the instructor is responsible for ensuring that the diver and the dive plan are compatible.

 

[TMHeimer]

Thanks. I suppose by the "physical" it could mean assessing buoyancy, skills, etc. in the pool. Could also mean just looking at someone's body I suppose. I does say "during" courses--not specifically checking it out before the course begins. But that could be splitting hairs.

 

[yle]

T I does say "during" courses--not specifically checking it out before the course begins. But that could be splitting hairs.

Exactly... one could argue that the course begins when the paperwork is signed. Anything after that point is "during" the course.

 

[Neilwood]

Thanks. I suppose by the "physical" it could mean assessing buoyancy, skills, etc. in the pool. Could also mean just looking at someone's body I suppose. I does say "during" courses--not specifically checking it out before the course begins. But that could be splitting hairs.

I would say after a few minutes of dive 1 the risk assessment the instructor should have been carrying out should have had flashing lights and warning buzzers going off. At that point,speaking as a non professional I will admit, I think the dive should have been called as there were clearly a number of major issues just waiting to get worse.

At best, there is one diver out of control with virtually no buoyancy control who could go for an uncontrolled ascent at any second if they stop holding the line for a second. That alone makes it time for calling the dive and remedial training imho. Using the BSAC incident pit analogy, the three of them are quite deep into the pit and any issue at all is going to take them all the way in with no way back.

 

[DanielRJones]

I have intentionally taken my courses at different locations.
Ow drysuit and navigation and rescue with 1st instructor

Aow and ppb with 2nd instructor

Wreck and nitrox with 3rd

I have done this so that I do not end up like the person in the video. You qualify with 1 instructor and you know no better you assume everything you have done is right.
My second instructor actually dislikes the person I done my Ow with so would have had no issues shopping him in if I had been crap.
My 3rd instructor is also a tdi trimix instructor who I selected to carry on my tec progression with.

Over the 3 instructors from 3 different schools I have only had minor things said about my skills (need to work on frog a bit more as my 1 leg drops below me, or buddy checks not being as good and formal as one school expects and a slight change in kit setup to move to long hose)

If one instructor is telling you you are safe and good then you take it with a pinch of salt. When you have 3 different schools telling you that you dive well your trim and buoyancy are very good and you are a safe good diver then it's different

 

[cerich]

Makes sense to me to have a skills assessment before allowing someone in the Deep course if no one at the shop is familiar with them. Some people talk a good game.

the most common skills assessment for too many shops and instructors is a does the credit card clear.

 

[AustinV]

I think instructors should be more diligent about making sure their students are able to safely perform all the skills needed for the certs they are taking. I didn't fully watch the video or read the whole thread, only bits and pieces, but it seemed to me the person making the video was one student (not sure a student taking a course should ever be concerned with video?) and then there was an instructor and a second student who was having a lot of issues.

Luckily the student (?) who was making the video had the ability to basically manage themselves underwater, had the instructor had two students with skills similar to the second student, this could have gotten ugly really quick.

I'm a relatively newly certified diver and am intentionally avoiding advanced certifications until I feel my buoyancy and other skills are 100% where they should be so I can get the most benefit out of further training.

 

[Carl_F]

Thanks. I suppose by the "physical" it could mean assessing buoyancy, skills, etc. in the pool. Could also mean just looking at someone's body I suppose. I does say "during" courses--not specifically checking it out before the course begins. But that could be splitting hairs.

It doesn't have to be in the pool. And hopefully the first dive on the course was not to 130 ft (which is what I thought I saw at the start of the video. I've done assessments during equipment assembly, gear up, and swim out/descent to 60 ft. before doing any skills. I've adjusted the dive plan based on the assessment. And in this case, since not all dives for this specialty can be done in one day, to do a "fun dive" first to get acquainted with the site or with each other as divers (i.e. an assessment.) Do a fun dive, deep dive 1, & deep dive 2 on Day 1 then deep dive 3 & 4 the next day.

It's something instructor is supposed to do but it doesn't have to be pool or a specific "checkout" dive.

 

[TMHeimer]

[QUOTE="AustinV,

I'm a relatively newly certified diver and am intentionally avoiding advanced certifications until I feel my buoyancy and other skills are 100% where they should be so I can get the most benefit out of further training.[/QUOTE]

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Good plan, but don't wait too long to get Rescue Cert. I did that after 26 dives--my skills could've been better, but I did OK in the course and now had the knowledge.
With PADI, you don't even need AOW now, just Adventure Diver, which is something like 3 dives.