Instructor Professionalism

[Marie13]

To be honest, once you have paid your money, and done a few dives its really hard to ask for a refund.

What if they don’t give a refund? If you don’t like the instructor’s attitude that much, just walk. Losing money or walking (swimming?) on eggshells during class?

 

[ofg-1]

Just tell the guy that you did not think that teaching us how to be a giant arsehole was part of the curriculum.

 

[jaredy]

Maybe yes, maybe no. My comment was based on my personal opinion and experience.

Have you ever participated in military basic training? Or any military training?

Its almost funny that 'basic training' has been brought up. I completed it in the 90's and there was definitely a lot of yelling and humiliation. But at the time I could understand it. It was purposeful, in that it was the destruction of the person's individualistic identity and its reformation into a 'cog' on a cohesive team. The vitriol also declined when demonstrating competence and was later accompanied by esprit de corps (group pride).

My interpretation of this particular instruction was quite different. I was given the impression that Tec training required continuous 'emotional task loading' to ensure the execution of Tec skills under duress. But it differed from Basic Training as the hazing never improved, and I never felt any form of pride.

 

[jaredy]

What if they don’t give a refund? If you don’t like the instructor’s attitude that much, just walk. Losing money or walking (swimming?) on eggshells during clas

 

[Waterwulf]

I was trained in a NAUI course in the early 70's by men who were current Special Forces Soldiers earning extra cash. They were all tough and mean and one scared me regularly. (He dove with his boots on!) They yelled and shouted and growled and generally scared all of us but none us us felt abused. They trained us the way they had been trained but even though I wanted to quit a half dozen times, I kept training. They never once singled any one person out for "special treatment" or anything like that. Oh, we all got beat up verbally but we also got encouraged and given extra help when we needed it for some task. They did not cross the line from training to abuse but it sounds like your instructor doesn't know where that line is. Even the girls in my class passed.

I have received and given training that was maybe a little brutal but personal insults, public displays of anger, special treatment, etc. are all good ways to breed resentment and that will result in poor training. I would not accept personal insults from any Instructor.

 

[jaredy]

What if they don’t give a refund? If you don’t like the instructor’s attitude that much, just walk. Losing money or walking (swimming?) on eggshells during class?

I agree. So that's pretty much what happened in my case. I paid 2200 CAD (1600 USD) for a 4 week internship in Koh Tao Thailand. This included the TDI ANDP and unlimited diving. But I quit the course and took advantage of the unlimited sidemount diving. I don't think my classmates felt that they had that option.

I posted in this forum in an attempt to determine whether this experience was an anomaly or representative of future Tec courses.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

My experience is that the US Government utilizes those exact same tactics in military basic training.

Not my experience. I graduated from three US Navy officer training schools in the early 1980s.
Officer Candidate School, Surface Warfare Officer School and Basic Diving/Salvage Officer school and a variety of different week-two week long schools such as COMSEC, Ships Self Defense Force leader school.....and more.

The instructors at all of these schools were professional. They never demeaned any of us, they never swore at us, they never disrespected us. They DID kick our collective asses, forced PT and LONG runs - like 14 miles at a time.

Using tactics as described above has no place in an educational format. It is ineffective and counter-productive.

Jim....my posts in this thread were a comparison of this instructor to BASIC training.....not subsequent training. My training beyond BASIC was strict but still professional.

 

[sheeper]

I'm a TDI-SDI Course Director (and the senior instructor at our shop) and our shop teaches a LOT of tech. Diving is fun. the behavior you described is not.
Tech is as much about the mental game as the physicality of it. Such negative behavior is both stupid AND dangerous. We build and practice critical skills by including positive reinforcement, coaching, and mentoring.
If i saw an instructor candidate or instructor of ours doing such things, they would be gone.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I will say that my SDI/TDS Solo course that myself and a buddy took this past May was both strict and fair.

On the final dive of the course, the instructor asked us if it was OK for him to "ghost" us. We asked what that meant and he simply said..... " Are you OK if I "test" you with unexpected surprises on this dive". We said "sure".

Even though we knew what what was basically coming.....it was still "interesting" to have an instructor come up from behind and turn off my primary gas, pull off a fin and remove my mask at the same time......then once we recovered to signal for us to shoot our DSMB's. It was kinda like the "final exam" and was a great confidence builder.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

.it was still "interesting" to have an instructor come up from behind and turn off my primary gas, pull off a fin and remove my mask at the same time

is this "Realistic" training? How often have divers suffered three failures like this at the same time?

Can you imagine the field day an ambulance chasing tort lawyer would have with this should these forced failures cause a fatality or an uncontrolled escape to the surface resulting in DCS or AGE?

I think that behavior is irresponsible.