Independent Doubles!

[LiteHedded]

I will believe what you say after watching from safe distance you doing drills for a 1/2 hour at 150 feet

choose the right gas and it's not an issue

 

[StreetDoctor]

Yea me too... To be honest I was leaning strongly towards independent doubles when I was considering what kind to get but after doing a course where the instructor spent a lot of time going through the things that can go wrong with manifolds, how to deal with them, etc, I felt a lot more comfortable and ended up going with manifolded twins (but think that both setups have their place). I know a few people though, who've set manifolded twins up all themselves with no input with others and either cannot reach their valves, or have no idea what to do if something goes wrong and the ramifications of various failures. To those kinds of people, they have no redundancy and are basically diving with one big tank.

LOL you guys crack me up. Operating an islator is EXTREMELY easy if you ever practice. You make it sound like such a difficult task.

 

[StreetDoctor]

A real question from a amateur low tec diver , does the industry instruct you in real world conditions that I talked about . I don't want to sound like a jerk and understand why they don't and better if they do . I must be fishing around to convince myself to take some classes . I have more experience than instruction which puts me in awkward position . The first good deco dive I made was on the moody a very nice wreck .The week before they had a double fatality and multiple diver injuries that were tec trained . Panic was the result of one death and the injuries. I took a tri mix diver on the same wreck who banged his head on his deco bottle when he did a back roll into the water from the side of my boat . He could have drowned .Don't blame me for being skeptical of those who are trained.

you're so amazing...

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

Didn't think this was going to turn into a little independent versus manifold doubles. But ok it's interesting to hear each side. But one thing that seems to be forgotten here. The key phrase of all this was, "A rig easily capable of single and doubles while traveling to dive sites".

So, in reality, diving independent doubles (or sidemount) is the only option available for travel, that will allow you the use of doubles. If you go to Yap for example, your not bringing your manifold doubles with you. But you can take two resort rented 80 AL's and now your diving doubles. Which is either allowing some deep water dives, or extending bottom times. Which by the way is the ultimate goal here isn't it?

I haven't dove manifold doubles yet, but wouldn't mind trying it, to see the difference. But being a solo diver, I like the preference of completely separate air supplies. Maybe its just habit. Like I said before, each set-up has its place, and its time. And it all depends on what the diver feels the most comfortable with. The funny thing is, all this started because I leave for Bonaire in 2 weeks and I didnt want to surface swim out, descend and dive with an 80 AL only to surface, and surface swim back. So to extend bottom times, and avoid surface swims, and not have to rent 19 or 30 pony bottles, I got my self a independent doubles rig. Which I love because of the versatility of the rig. I can dive anything and anywhere now with the fewest modifications possible. And I don't have to worry about taking my 133 steel tanks anywhere.

But most of you guys all make very valid points. Thanks for the info and feedback.

 

[DaleC]

LOL you guys crack me up. Operating an islator is EXTREMELY easy if you ever practice. You make it sound like such a difficult task.

That's how I feel when I hear people diss'ing independant doubles. It's EXTREMELY easy to dive them. You guys make it sound like such a difficult task

The guy asked a question - I gave an answer. I've debated the gas access issue in the thread I linked in post 2 but if there is any other "worst of sidemount/worst of backmount points that anyone wants to bring up I'm all ears. Just be prepared to defend them because my BS meter is all charged up.

If one doesn't dive ID's and doesn't have anything substantial to add, why post into the thread anyways. Is sarcasm an internet diving skill I'm not aware of? It's funny how a member of SB is trying to dispel certain perceptions in one thread while others are perpetuating them here.

 

[AndyNZ]

If you go to Yap for example, your not bringing your manifold doubles with you. But you can take two resort rented 80 AL's and now your diving doubles.

But you can whip your manifold off your setup, and take that and your bands with you. I've done that a couple of times for trips. Most operators don't really have an issue of taking a couple of valves out of their tanks for you, provided you ask in advance of the trip.

 

[AndyNZ]

I've debated the gas access issue in the thread I linked in post 2 but if there is any other "worst of sidemount/worst of backmount points that anyone wants to bring up I'm all ears. Just be prepared to defend them because my BS meter is all charged up.

Sorry, Dale, I have to admit I was too lazy to go and read the thread you linked to - just gone and scanned through it to pick out the salient points.

I think there are some fundamentally different view points, you are approaching it as a solo diver whereas I am approaching it as someone operating with in a team. I am also primarily thinking of the dives that I do - mostly deco dives in the 32-55m range.

For me, gas reserves on any independent set up (back or side mount) are way too crippling for those dives. There is, therefore, no argument for using anything other than what I would use for those dives.

If I had to choose, I would go sidemount - if you remove the ability to ascend directly to the surface then the need to preserve what gas you have after a failure is highest priority. Sidemount gives you more options to identify and fix problems to give you access to your full gas supply.

 

[Gombessa]

Is sarcasm an internet [-]diving[/-] skill I'm not aware of?

Welcome to the Internet

Danny: I'm sorry, are you being sarcastic? It's hard for me to tell. I'm Canadian and we don't have a big Jewish population.

 

[DaleC]

Here's how I switch out a tank during the SI (very complicated)

If we assume either that you are bringing your BP/W with you or renting this is the mounting system. In fact, that Hollis STA is kind of big (I dive cold water and wanted to pour lead into it for a keel weight). My other STA is much smaller. I also don't like those plastic buckles and plan to replace them with SS:

 

[rjack321]

Team is an important issue here - most team oriented divers will tend to have a preference for manifolded doubles. Manifolded doubles give you options, and the disadvantages of having complexity behind your head is offset by diving with people who are familiar with your kit, know how it works, can help you identify and not just resolve - but fix failures.

And solo-ists the sidemounted tanks. Leaving the lowly independent doubles diver without the capacity to share all of his (or her) gas effectively with a teammate. Nor able to troubleshoot problems and/or swap regs by himself with the tanks up front.

There's a reason no agency actually teaches independents (at least here in the States, maybe BSAC or CMAS have a course in these). The setup is obsolete.