Increase in liveaboard diving vs land-based?

[Dogbowl]

I’m pretty new to the diving scene and recently discovered liveaboard diving. Has LOB diving always been this popular or has this been increasing over time? I’ve just noticed a lot of new LOB booking engines lately.

 

[KathyV]

I’m pretty new to the diving scene and recently discovered liveaboard diving. Has LOB diving always been this popular or has this been increasing over time? I’ve just noticed a lot of new LOB booking engines lately.

I don't know. I've seen liveaboard companies come and go over the years, like the Nekton and Dancer boats, so you could argue that LOB diving was more popular in the past. Blackbeard's used to operate 3 boats in the Bahamas but one sank and they didn't replace it - but they now offer 2 higher-end LOBs in addition to their 2 economy boats. The Aggressor now operates a LOB in the Bahamas, and there are a few smaller LOBs around that area, so it seems like business has increased, but a few other LOBs have gone out of business in the Bahamas, like the Nekton already mentioned and the Crown Islander - but that one's been gone a long time.

Some companyies are expanding and there are (and have always been) significant numbers of non-US owned LOBs operating around the world. The booking agents help to sell berths so that probably increases business, but they must get a fee so what does that mean to the longevity of the business? My guess is that LOB diving was popular in the past and it is still popular today, but that business varies in different areas for different reasons.

A lot of divers, especially from the UK and Europe used to go to the Red Sea to dive and there used to be loads of LOBs working those waters. I think that the entire Egyptian tourism industry has been adversely impacted by the current political environment and that includes diving and LOBs.

And I imagine that some areas of the Caribbean, like the T&Cs, are still recovering from recent hurricanes and that might hurt business for awhile, but it might increase business in luckier areas that weren't hit. And there are both political and environmental reasons that might make LOB diving more popular in some areas of the world and less popular in others. Distance is also an issue and airfares are increasing in some areas so that probably impacts diving and tourist venues in general.

I've read that diving in general has decreased in popularity but I am not sure about that, it's seems to be thriving in some areas. But I would guess that the availability of online shopping has hurt dive shop businesses and that could explain the need for booking agents.

@Wookie used to operate a LOB in Florida and the Bahamas and he could probably give a better informed answer to your interesting question!

 

[scubafanatic]

While I've always preferred the liveaboard lifestyle, had to say if it's more popular overall in the diving community. Maybe there's an attempt to cut out the dive shop middle man markup as trips are already getting too expensive ? Maybe the only decent diving these days are sites safely out of range of the day boats/pod people unwashed masses ? As previously mentioned, if anyone can provide useful insight it's def 'Wookie' (former captain/owner of SPREE) on whose boat I managed to do some of the most awesome dive trips of my life!

 

[Wookie]

Liveaboard and land based are incomparable. I enjoy both, but they really attract a different client. The Liveaboard diver wants to dive. They don’t care about beer or beaches or shopping or fine dining, althose things are available on a Liveaboard. Liveaboard is typically more expensive than all inclusive land based, like cocoview but not on a meal plan resort like Dons habitat. But the real value to Liveaboard is that you can go by Liveaboard where you can’t get to by dayboat. It’s very rare to dive French cay by day boat, and no day boats go to the Flower Gardens, but there is no reason to take a Liveaboard to where the day boats go.

 

[diversteve]

I would say there's been an increase in liveaboard specific booking agents recently - some of which advertise here - there's liveaboard.com, liveaboards.com(PADI) divebooker.com etc. but they mostly book the same boats - some just change ownership/booking agents over time.

An example is after Hughes sold out to Aggressor he started a new company around 2010? with 4-5 boats under agreement - one of them the former Utila based MV Pearl - now the rebadged Bay Islands Aggressor.

But it's the same boat - I've known it with 3 different affiliations this past decade. Don't see much from DivEbcounters - Hughes new booking agency except I believe they still rep for Galapagos Sky and possibly the Hunter boats to Cocos.

Living in the SW we used to play a game about what the "new" Baja liveaboard being promoted had been in a past life before being refurbished. Even Aggressor did that with a short-lived venture once about a decade ago. Some of those boats have been beating around that area for decades.

There are always new boats coming online as well - recently the Nautilus Belle Amie and Rocio del Mar has a 2nd boat now - more of a research operation although it's pretty nice - just shared cabins. . I think Belle Amie was relocated from the Red Sea area - it's the same style as many of those boats.
As is the Red Sea Aggressor.

 

[KeithG]

Nothing new here. I claim that it takes a few years before new divers discover LOBs.

When you start out you are unaware of the choices and focus on a few easy to choose destinations (safe, cheap, easy to get to).

Then you graduate to trying more destinations. LOBs now come on the radar but you are worried about dedicating your whole week to diving.

Then you finally try a LOB. And never look back.
2 out of 3 dives trips are LOBs for us.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I wonder if economics and demographics drive this? During the world-wide recession (starting in 2008) any travel, and perhaps especially more-expensive travel, declined. With recover comes more LOB. Also, as the "baby boom" ages they're more able to afford the LOB option. Or their kids are grown, and are either out of the vacation picture or also divers.

Just speculating .....

 

[Damselfish]

there is no reason to take a Liveaboard to where the day boats go.

Just being able to set up gear once, amble out to the dive deck 5 times a day and fall into the water is reason enough for some of us. And that part where you amble from the dive deck to the food 5 times a day isn't bad either.

Some places it's not a bad way to escape the bugs on land, either.

 

[Doc]

I’ve just noticed a lot of new LOB booking engines lately.

That's the one quantitative thing you can ascertain.

Scuba Board attracts commercial posts like that, a few actually using their corporate names in the sig lines, some lurking beneath the guise of friendly advice. You've gotten 7 replies so far, you couldn't ask for a better list of SB repliers. I am a highly opinionated curmudgeon, but I am the only poster from Illinois here that isn't also secretly selling a product...similar to the one you mention.

It's also the best business model possible- you're selling something that somebody else owns. You spend minimal money on a website or ad, look as much as you can as the real official boat ownership (with fine print disclaimers), take the money, do a "pass through" while withholding your 15%. Any nit-wit can do that, in fact, many are. Some innocent and honest, others not so much. They all are at the mercy of the LOB ownership and their product as she is presented on that future date of sailing.

This is the main source for all the pop up banner ads that you're seeing here.

To the other possible topic? The increase in numbers of LOB offerings?

I'm thinking that the heyday was the early 90's, but that's kind of irrelevant as we're seeing more targeted advertising. You're likely seeing a resurgence now for several economic driven reasons.

1) Larger pleasure boats and correctly sized (for diving LOB) are coming on the market for what I'm being told are reasonable pricing. Still requiring monthly payments, now unused boats, they can look like cheap floating hotels.

2) LOB corporations do "flag" privately owned vessels, but now that these corporations have gained foundation, they are quite interested in retaining more financial interest in their offered vessels. (Note: their lawyers counsel against "ownership" per-se) You are seeing expansion driven by the economy of larger scale. Look at the historical McDonalds model.

Remember well that they operate tied to a fixed cost model. A full ship is about the same operational cost as 1/2 full. Like a hotel, unsold rooms are a perishable commodity. You think there's some leeway in pricing to secondary sellers? Could be attractive.

3) Who is buying trips? DEMA barely talks about what very little they know about land based travelers, so there's really not much out there unless you talk with guys the likes of Frank Watson or (the afore referenced) John Dixon, et al. They have long pondered "How do you make $50k in the LOB industry? First, ask your bank for $10m...." I am a self admitted minnow, unable to think like a whale, so I'll defer to those still silent owners.

If you believe general travel industry reportage, it is saying that higher end offerings are doing better overall. (We can discuss actual vs perceived benefit in another thread) I would think that LOB users believe they are getting better value.

As was mentioned above, divers have changed- they are not as adventurous and have become more "perceived risk" adverse. What is better than a micro-cruise ship, replete with attractive staff, no scary locals, and no bugs. It's very attractive in a sanitized way.

Diving has only gotten more expensive, travel has also. It is no longer working pickup trucks in LDS parking lots, it is FedEx guys walking up SUV cluttered driveways delivering packages from on line dive gear vendors. The audience is winnowing down, smart money is following what money there is. Hardware and travel, same same.

We do know that people are spending their money on "experiences". Diving alone is bragging rights while you're back home, much less if you tell them it was onboard a boat like the Calypso. Plus you get to buy the official polo shirt...remember, dive resorts only have t-shirts.

5) Marketing angles: There is much interest in the desire for the "best reefs/coral/fish" and this is tied (incorrectly or not) to "diver impact". LOBs offer the easy argument that they will avoid that...again, truth or perception is irrelevant. It sells.

_______

I have seen a number of LOBs come and go, starting with the Isla Mia. I have seen over priced LOBs succeed where equally good and way cheaper land based would do just fine. Some great LOB options failed because of impossible travel connections.

As long as there are dreamers with lots of money...or more likely- other people's money...the industry will be there.

 

[Wookie]

take the money, do a "pass through" while withholding your 15%.

Any nit-wit can do that, in fact, many are.

35%. But it goes back to what you said earlier. You can give 35% to someone who will fill your boat, or you can vet your customers and pick those who are appropriate to your vessel.

I remember running the boat in the Flower Gardens and having folks tell me that they were "working up" for a trip to Cozumel. I'd look in disbelief as the boat heaved and tossed us across the galley.