wetvet
Guest
Hi all....
I wanted to describe a situation I faced last weekend to get your input about the hows and whys.....I still have a few questions. To start with, everyone seems to be suffering no physical effects from this dive.
We were on an open water certification weekend in lake water that was 33-37 degrees, depending on whose computer you read. Myself and another staff diver were with a couple of students who had handled themselves relatively well for the first 4 dives. On the last dive, the students were to set a "floor" of 55 ft, and lead the dive, while we kept an eye on them. Student B seemed fairly overweighted, but it had not been a serious problem over the last 4 dives.
We jumped in, did surface communications, and proceeded to descend, with the students just under the other staff and me. At about 50 ft, Student A signalled Student B to level off, but he kept descending, and I noticed that he did not have his hand on his inflater hose. I swam down and caught him by his BC strap and stopped his descent at about 60'. He slapped my hand away, but then turned to his buddy and signalled OK. They faced each other and seemed to be "settling" Suddenly, Student B removes his reg from his mouth!! At the time I did not notice a free flow. Student A offered his Octo, but I got there first, and put mine in front of Student B's face (we had agreed on surface that a free-flow situation would be handled by a staff-student pair, rather than 2 students). Time elapsed with the reg out was minimal....mebbe 5-10 sec.
He pushed my octo away....offered it again and purged it, thinking he couldn't clear it....he pushed it away again, so I gave him his primary back. He seemed to take a breath, then removed it again....now it was definitely freeflowing!!!!! Bubble chaos began. His eyes were getting huge, and I saw him look up.
I grabbed the back of his neck (meant to grab tank, sorry Student B), and held my octo at his mouth, but he wouldn't hold it, and never used his hand to steady the octo.
We started the ascent. Other staff said that we didnt start to rise for a little while (time is impossible to guess at). I was swimming all I had, but could barely start rising. Again...bubbles everywhere, and I had a hard time telling if we were going up. Student B was flailing a little, and managed to pull my reg out of my mouth, so I had to let the octo away from him to get my air back. We finally started keeping up with our bubbles....by this time Im breathing like a freight train, and my primary starts freeflowing.
Around this time Student B went limp. His eyes were open, but his mouth was slack, and he was dead weight. We continue rising, and my drysuit is puffing up....my left hand is on his neck, so I cocked my elbow to try to vent, but couldnt keep up. Considered venting his BC, but needed my other hand to hold the octo to his mouth. His mouth is open, and some bubbles came out, but not sure if he ever inhaled. 200 years later, we breached the surface....undoubtedly too quickly (again, didnt have my gauges in sight). Got him on his back, and he puked out a bunch of water, and finally answered my question about him being all right. He puked up some white froth on the way into shore.
At debreifing, he says he removed his reg because it was freeflowing, and couldnt breath off my octo because it was also freeflowing. After that, he doesn't remember anything. The instructors examined him (and me), and could find no problems with him neurologically, and his lungs sounded pretty good. I was coughing a fair bit, but didn't feel like I had damaged anything, and have been OK since, except for feeling exhausted.
Questions.....Could this student have been narc'd? Is that why he thought he had a free flow, and that my octo wasn't good? Should I not have purged my octo when I gave it to him the second time? Did he likely lose consciousness on the ascent, or could he have been in a state of "passive panic"? How could I have better handled the situation?
Feel free to flame away....I don't care if I was wrong, I just want to avoid anything like this in the future.
On another note....I've read a lot of posts about ascending with an unconscious diver (which I assumed at the time). You all talked about assessing if there was water in the mask, and wheter to take it off, and debating whether it is better to control ascent rate using your BC or his, etc. Either I suck as a rescue diver, or that is all just posturing. I could not access his BC...or mine, since both hands were busy keeping his head straight and air in front of him, and I kept looking at his eyes, but even if there was water in his mask, I would have been unwilling to let go to remove his mask.
Any input would be appreciated. This incident has shook me a bit, and I would like to be able to dissect it and hopefully put it behind me.....even now, typing this, I have a knot in my belly.
Thanks,
Wetvet
I wanted to describe a situation I faced last weekend to get your input about the hows and whys.....I still have a few questions. To start with, everyone seems to be suffering no physical effects from this dive.
We were on an open water certification weekend in lake water that was 33-37 degrees, depending on whose computer you read. Myself and another staff diver were with a couple of students who had handled themselves relatively well for the first 4 dives. On the last dive, the students were to set a "floor" of 55 ft, and lead the dive, while we kept an eye on them. Student B seemed fairly overweighted, but it had not been a serious problem over the last 4 dives.
We jumped in, did surface communications, and proceeded to descend, with the students just under the other staff and me. At about 50 ft, Student A signalled Student B to level off, but he kept descending, and I noticed that he did not have his hand on his inflater hose. I swam down and caught him by his BC strap and stopped his descent at about 60'. He slapped my hand away, but then turned to his buddy and signalled OK. They faced each other and seemed to be "settling" Suddenly, Student B removes his reg from his mouth!! At the time I did not notice a free flow. Student A offered his Octo, but I got there first, and put mine in front of Student B's face (we had agreed on surface that a free-flow situation would be handled by a staff-student pair, rather than 2 students). Time elapsed with the reg out was minimal....mebbe 5-10 sec.
He pushed my octo away....offered it again and purged it, thinking he couldn't clear it....he pushed it away again, so I gave him his primary back. He seemed to take a breath, then removed it again....now it was definitely freeflowing!!!!! Bubble chaos began. His eyes were getting huge, and I saw him look up.
I grabbed the back of his neck (meant to grab tank, sorry Student B), and held my octo at his mouth, but he wouldn't hold it, and never used his hand to steady the octo.
We started the ascent. Other staff said that we didnt start to rise for a little while (time is impossible to guess at). I was swimming all I had, but could barely start rising. Again...bubbles everywhere, and I had a hard time telling if we were going up. Student B was flailing a little, and managed to pull my reg out of my mouth, so I had to let the octo away from him to get my air back. We finally started keeping up with our bubbles....by this time Im breathing like a freight train, and my primary starts freeflowing.
Around this time Student B went limp. His eyes were open, but his mouth was slack, and he was dead weight. We continue rising, and my drysuit is puffing up....my left hand is on his neck, so I cocked my elbow to try to vent, but couldnt keep up. Considered venting his BC, but needed my other hand to hold the octo to his mouth. His mouth is open, and some bubbles came out, but not sure if he ever inhaled. 200 years later, we breached the surface....undoubtedly too quickly (again, didnt have my gauges in sight). Got him on his back, and he puked out a bunch of water, and finally answered my question about him being all right. He puked up some white froth on the way into shore.
At debreifing, he says he removed his reg because it was freeflowing, and couldnt breath off my octo because it was also freeflowing. After that, he doesn't remember anything. The instructors examined him (and me), and could find no problems with him neurologically, and his lungs sounded pretty good. I was coughing a fair bit, but didn't feel like I had damaged anything, and have been OK since, except for feeling exhausted.
Questions.....Could this student have been narc'd? Is that why he thought he had a free flow, and that my octo wasn't good? Should I not have purged my octo when I gave it to him the second time? Did he likely lose consciousness on the ascent, or could he have been in a state of "passive panic"? How could I have better handled the situation?
Feel free to flame away....I don't care if I was wrong, I just want to avoid anything like this in the future.
On another note....I've read a lot of posts about ascending with an unconscious diver (which I assumed at the time). You all talked about assessing if there was water in the mask, and wheter to take it off, and debating whether it is better to control ascent rate using your BC or his, etc. Either I suck as a rescue diver, or that is all just posturing. I could not access his BC...or mine, since both hands were busy keeping his head straight and air in front of him, and I kept looking at his eyes, but even if there was water in his mask, I would have been unwilling to let go to remove his mask.
Any input would be appreciated. This incident has shook me a bit, and I would like to be able to dissect it and hopefully put it behind me.....even now, typing this, I have a knot in my belly.
Thanks,
Wetvet