In your Opinion, what are the responsibilities of a DM?

[scoobajay]

Hi All, I recently posted a story in the Accidents and Incidents Thread: http://2sb.us/513277
**I'm not asking for feedback on this particular incident as I think we've already beat the dead horse (is there a better idiom for that??)

Our discussion naturally opened up another question and I'd love to hear some input from divers, DM's, Dive Ops, et al.

I pretty much only dive when I travel , so for the most part, I'm referring to vacation/destination diving, not the DM who is certifying a diver for OW....Whether correctly or incorrectly, I have always regarded a dive master as a sort of "Tour Guide" for the dive. Because I am a mere visitor and can't be an expert on every dive site I visit, I expect the DM to know the dive site front and back, know the conditions, and have a dive plan in place for the group. I expect the DM to ask about my qualifications and to lead me on a dive that is appropriate for my skill level or if it is not appropriate for my skill level, give me the necessary information so I can make that judgement call.

I believe that I am responsible for my own safety as diver, but if there wasn't a certain amount of guidance I expected from a DM, I would just rent a boat and take myself on a dive!

In your opinions, What are the professional (or even legal) responsibilities of a Dive Master leading a paying customer on a dive?

-I am responsible for my own safety, but to what degree are they responsible for a diver's safety?
-To what extent should a DM describe a dive site?
-Should a DM ever take divers to a site that is outside of recreational limits?
-etc., etc....?

 

[vincent54]

DM is responsible to get you to a site to dive. That's it.

Learn how to dive and know your limits. We seem to have a culture of always having to depend on someone else and to blame if something doesn't go our way. Be responsible for your decisions and if you feel deficient, train to be better. DM are a false crutch if you really get in trouble under the sea.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

++++ vincent54 ^^^^ This....

When you become a better diver / self sufficient - you will enjoy the diving experience so much more.

 

[kwinter]

I disagree. When a DM is assigned by the resort or dive op, they take on a responsibility for the clients' safety. If they just rent you a boat and captain, that's one thing. But if they send a DM to accompany you in the water, they are clearly sending a "supervisor" to protect you and themselves. That passes a "duty of care" on to the DM. I agree that you shouldn't use it as a crutch or hold his hand the whole time. But if the DM decides where you dive, who you dive with, how long you dive, how much air you surface with, and leads you on the dive, then he also accepts the responsibility for making sure the site and conditions are appropriate for the divers. At least to the extent possible given his limited knowledge of your skills.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[Macan]

A DM or Instructor is a professional leadership position. In any in-water activity, the principle responsibility of a DM or Instructor is DUTY OF CARE. This means -- to protect the less knowledgeable diver from harm. Fulfillment of this duty is achieved through the following:

1. Conducting routine risk assessments before, during and after open water dives, This means that the variables are evaluated and reevaluated often as some of them (such as weather and water conditions and diver state of mind) can change quickly. A DM or Instructor must always be vigilant, aware and watchful for factors that can contribute to putting divers at risk.

2. Exercise sound judgment.

3. Have appropriate safety equipment available, ensure that divers are properly equipped, and be prepared to respond in an emergency.

4. Follow Standards and local practices that are in place.

 

[scoobajay]

Just be clear, I'm not asking this question as it pertains to me personally, but in general for all divers using dive ops.


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[Qnape]

There have been many previous threads on this topic, and it may be useful to look up the hundreds of replies from divers of different types, preferences, and locations. IIRC, any "consensus" involves the need for divers to be self-reliant, including not only skills but the need to obtain enough information in advance so that informed decisions about the dive can be made.

DM's fill different roles in different locations, and diver's expectations of the role to be played by a DM also varies depending on where they trained and the type of diving they do. On east coast US wreck boats, DM's generally do not enter the water and supply only surface support and information. Most shore divers and shore diving locations do not involve DM's at all. On the other hand, while I have no direct experience I am told that recreational divers is some parts of Asia prefer or expect close supervision by DM's. The diving industry naturally seeks to provide the services that people will pay for.

Remember also that DM's in many locations are there due to the perceived need to 1) protect the reefs from divers, and 2) provide employment and promote tourism. This is often true in marine parks, sometimes set up with an eye towards ensuring that locals have a stake in exchange for giving up fishing in an area. They are not there to protect you, except in so far as if they fail to bring back significant numbers of customers, it is bad for business.

It is easy for divers to fall into a certain amount of dependency if they do all their diving in locations where DM's are required or widely used. There are obvious dangers here. It is important to understand that, except perhaps in the case of a privately hired personal DM, they are not there to protect you and in this regard could best be looked at as a dive buddy with lots of local experience who will assist if they can. For my first dive trip (to Cozumel) I hired a private DM for my daughter and I, and felt he owed a certain duty of care. I have never felt that way since.

I personally do a lot of Caribbean vacation diving, and use boutique shops whenever possible. I do this to avoid being mixed in with divers of varying and often little experience, so I can dive my computer and tank and not end the dive on a schedule or when the first diver runs low, and to take advantage of the better local knowledge frequently held and shared by the local ops. Also so that they can hold and rinse my gear for the next day. A DM with lots of local experience can help me to access the best sites in the area, understand the conditions at each so that I can be informed and ready, and find me things I want to see or photograph. His input will help me choose gear, camera lens / lighting configuration, and often gain me opportunities for photos I would not get on my own. If he asks me during a dive how much air I have I will reply, but I never consider it his responsibility to keep track of my gas or proximity to the NDL.

To keep as close to your questions as possible, IMHO DM's are only responsible for your safety if that is what they are hired for (a private DM), or in the most general way meaning that the shop owner can't make money from dead customers, and likely anyone will try to help another diver if they see them about to injure themselves or die and intervention can be made without too much personal risk. Can /should they be held responsible if something goes wrong? Are you an expert in the legal system of X country or island? I'm sure not, and it won't help if I'm dead anyway.

DM's should describe dive sites to your personal satisfaction. If not, ask questions or move to a different shop. I want to hear about current, depth, temp, topography, light conditions and any unusual life to watch for. What to you want them to tell you? Make sure they do.

DM's should not take recreational divers to sites that are outside recreational limits. But they do, if that's what the divers are willing to pay for. No-one is forcing them to go. Look at the Blue Hole dive in Belize for a perfect example. Know this, and make informed decisions about where YOU want to go.

Check out the previous similar threads as many knowledgeable divers have shared their thoughts on this subject.

Safe diving!

 

[RJP]

Hi All, I recently posted a story in the Accidents and Incidents Thread: http://2sb.us/513277
**I'm not asking for feedback on this particular incident as I think we've already beat the dead horse (is there a better idiom for that??)

Our discussion naturally opened up another question and I'd love to hear some input from divers, DM's, Dive Ops, et al.

I pretty much only dive when I travel , so for the most part, I'm referring to vacation/destination diving, not the DM who is certifying a diver for OW....Whether correctly or incorrectly, I have always regarded a dive master as a sort of "Tour Guide" for the dive. Because I am a mere visitor and can't be an expert on every dive site I visit, I expect the DM to know the dive site front and back, know the conditions, and have a dive plan in place for the group. I expect the DM to ask about my qualifications and to lead me on a dive that is appropriate for my skill level or if it is not appropriate for my skill level, give me the necessary information so I can make that judgement call.

I believe that I am responsible for my own safety as diver, but if there wasn't a certain amount of guidance I expected from a DM, I would just rent a boat and take myself on a dive!

In your opinions, What are the professional (or even legal) responsibilities of a Dive Master leading a paying customer on a dive?

-I am responsible for my own safety, but to what degree are they responsible for a diver's safety?
-To what extent should a DM describe a dive site?
-Should a DM ever take divers to a site that is outside of recreational limits?
-etc., etc....?

You've got an awful lot of expectations. This may present a problem for you, as you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you do not CONFIRM what any particular dive op employee's actual responsibilities are ahead of time.

None of your expectations are terribly unreasonable... but it's YOUR responsibility to find out ahead of time what personnel the dive op provides, what roles and responsibilities they will be fulfilling and whether this meets your expectations. (For instance, don't assume there will be a guide. If there is a guide, don't assume they are also DM. If there's a DM, don't assume they are also a guide. Etc) Similarly, it's the dive op's responsibility to be clear about who and what they provide. If there is something that you want in addition to what the op provides as "standard" you can then communicate what other things you were hoping for, determine whether the op can accommodate you, and whether there might be any incremental cost.

It seems almost universal that when there is a thread about someone's expectations of a dive op not having been met... those expectations (reasonable or otherwise) were never communicated. Almost every dive op I've ever encountered will bend over backwards to accommodate the wants, needs, and desires of their customers... but they cannot be expected to read your mind to find out what they are.

 

[scoobajay]

You've got an awful lot of expectations. This may present a problem for you, as you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you do not CONFIRM what any particular dive op employee's actual responsibilities are ahead of time.

I'm surprised to hear this (but then again, I posted the thread in order to learn what I should expect!)

 

[RJP]

I'm surprised to hear this (but then again, I posted the thread in order to learn what I should expect!)

Don't expect anything. Note, I'm not saying "expect nothing" here.

My point is that if you don't confirm what is provided, you don't have "expectations" but rather "assumptions."