In what position were you taught to perform dive skills?

[victorzamora]

you always had to worry about a student bolting for the surface.

I faced this problem very often. It seems like every pool session there was that one student that would rock back from their knees, go to their feet, and try to kick off to the surface. From neutral, this isn't an option.

They were inherently uncomfortable in the water and even more so when they finally left the bottom. They didn't have the time needed to get used to the balancing act since the bulk of instruction was done on the knees and the last part of the last session was devoted to actually looking like a diver.

This also makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[XS-NRG]

On my knees or standing. Wish we did them all mid water in a horizontal position. You'd create so many quality divers doing this!!!

 

[Rescue 312]

I was taught in the pool using the fin pivot, for the open water dives, we had to be in the neutral position, instructor wouldn't have it any other way, his reasoning is that when you dive, you do not kneel and walk on the bottom..

 

[The Chairman]

Situational awareness does not seem to be yours.

A thread about the Open Water Course in the Basic Scuba Discussion forum is the place to say holding your breath is wrong because holding your breath kills divers in Open Water Classes every year.

But the diver in question, never ever held his breath. In fact, during his reg recoveries, he always put his bungeed second into his mouth BEFORE he went to find the other stage. Why? So he could keep on breathing. That's what I teach my students and yes, my OW students all have bungeed back ups with 5 foot long hoses as their primary. You're the only one who thinks he is holding his breath and you want to talk to me about situational awareness? You criticize freely, but you certainly don't accept any criticisms gracefully.

But in reality, we need to define "holding your breath" so beginners understand what's safe and what isn't. Pausing the breath cycle in a manner that does not occlude your airway is not holding your breath. Holding your breath is when you actively close your glottis in order to inhibit air from escaping. Unfortunately, the muscles that close the glottis are far, far stronger than your lungs, so that any ascent done during a glottal closure could result in barotrauma to your lungs. No instructor can see your glottis in action, so we demand to see a tiny stream of bubbles to demonstrate that your glottis is indeed open. In this excellent video, you'll notice that the diver is breathing continually. That there are no bubbles present for a few scant seconds while he puts his bungeed reg into his mouth, does not indicate that he is holding his breath. Unless you are a nit picker bent on criticizing anything that isn't the way you teach, this is a wonderful demonstration of doing several skills while maintaining depth. Saying that he is holding his breath is about as stupid as saying that a mask on the forehead denotes that a diver is in distress.

 

[Skittl1321]

I watch YouTube video's quite a bit and find that I like the UTD, GUE & DIR video's that show a diver doing their skills while hovering ~12" off the bottom and not stirring up any silt. Here is one video that I particularly like because it shows that skills CAN be done in the horizontal without causing divers issues.

Okay, I complete believe that skills can be done, and done well in this position- but the diver in this video is clearly a skilled diver. But this video seems downright amazing to me. I cannot imagine being that proficient. Can new OW students REALLY do THAT?

 

[mselenaous]

Okay, I complete believe that skills can be done, and done well in this position- but the diver in this video is clearly a skilled diver. But this video seems downright amazing to me. I cannot imagine being that proficient. Can new OW students REALLY do THAT?

OW students need good examples to mimic. The instructors need to look this good...monkey see, monkey do. OW students often surprise me (and themselves). I don't tell them it is difficult or complicated or a bunch of yadayada, I make it look easy and say do what I do to the best of your ability. Students want to be like the teacher and are eager to show you they can do it. They will continue improving and getting smoother on their own the more time they spend in the water. Giving them a good root system to grow from.

 

[The Chairman]

Okay, I complete believe that skills can be done, and done well in this position- but the diver in this video is clearly a skilled diver. But this video seems downright amazing to me. I cannot imagine being that proficient. Can new OW students REALLY do THAT?

Yes and no. Can they do the skills off the bottom? Mine do. Can they do these skills while maintaining their depth? Mine do. Are they this polished? No. I can give you all the shiny tools you need to look like this. It's up to you to give a damn and actually practice them on every dive. I hate to toot my own horn (toot, toot), but I have had OW students in the pool where a fellow instructor thought I was training cavern divers. I'm not even a cavern instructor! I don't consider myself to be an exceptional instructor either. I just don't think the bar has been set neutral enough. The dive community has convinced itself that this type of buoyancy control in the new OW student just isn't possible. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. We even have some instructors making excuses why the physics won't work for them. Again, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[LowDrag]

Hey NetDoc and mselenaous, thanks for backing my posting of this video. As an OW student, I am sure I would not have been that good but I do would have strived to be. I look at these video's and challenge myself to become this proficient. I am not there yet but these video's definitely inspire me to be. This guy skill IMO is amazing, I really enjoy watching his video's. I just wish they were in English so I could understand what they are saying. There is another video with him in a pool showing the frog kick, that is a good watch as well.

 

[victorzamora]

Okay, I complete believe that skills can be done, and done well in this position- but the diver in this video is clearly a skilled diver. But this video seems downright amazing to me. I cannot imagine being that proficient.

The guys is a fantastic diver with incredible skill. His buoyancy and trim is incredible to me. I hope to slowly start looking that good, too. I've watched all of the UTD and GUE skills demonstration videos in awe, and every pool session I do I work on looking like them.

Can new OW students REALLY do THAT?

No, but they don't have to look perfect. As long as they look better than all of the horror stories we've all seen and/or heard of I think it's a step in the right direction.

OW students need good examples to mimic. The instructors need to look this good...monkey see, monkey do. OW students often surprise me (and themselves). I don't tell them it is difficult or complicated or a bunch of yadayada, I make it look easy and say do what I do to the best of your ability. Students want to be like the teacher and are eager to show you they can do it. They will continue improving and getting smoother on their own the more time they spend in the water. Giving them a good root system to grow from.

Instructor quality is the most crucial thing. On all of the pool sessions I helped with, I tried to maintain horizontal trim in a mid-water hover. I tried to swim around the pool in a calm, collected manner while maintaining depth and trim while doing skills for practice. Some students ignored me and continued to goof off with the toypedo while walking across the bottom. Every once in a while, I'd see one mimicking me. I'm not a great diver, but was the best diver for them to mimic that was down there....and I was a definite improvement over the other new divers (I think).

I was talking to Edd about this, and he said something that you may agree with. He said he did an OW class where his students were in SM, in horizontal trim, mid-water, frog-kicking, and NO sculling. He said the trick was to teach them the right way the first time, and to not let them know it's hard. If you let a student know it's hard, they'll think it's hard. He said they weren't perfect, but they were very good. I can believe that. I think the trick is to give new students the idea that that's expected of them, and give them an instructor to make it all look easy.

 

[LowDrag]

The guys is a fantastic diver with incredible skill. His buoyancy and trim is incredible to me. I hope to slowly start looking that good, too. I've watched all of the UTD and GUE skills demonstration videos in awe, and every pool session I do I work on looking like them.

He said the trick was to teach them the right way the first time, and to not let them know it's hard. If you let a student know it's hard, they'll think it's hard. He said they weren't perfect, but they were very good. I can believe that. I think the trick is to give new students the idea that that's expected of them, and give them an instructor to make it all look easy.

I agree 100% on both statements. If you tell someone something is hard then they are going to into thinking that right from the start. Some will try anyway and find right at the beginning that it is not difficult but there are those that will hold onto the statement and won't let it go.