In what position were you taught to perform dive skills?

[Scuba_Dad]

I learned on my knees and upright in 1979... I learned to teach (PADI) on my knees and upright in 2004... For the longest time, I kept reading these posts from prima donna instructors on ScubaBoard pontificating about bad it was to teach on the knees and how wonderful it was to teach neutrally buoyant. I kept thinking it was difficult enough to teach new students on their knees (bouncing, leaning, falling over, over weighted, etc), how could an instructor teach neutrally buoyant? Then PADI put an article in the Training Bulletin that it was OK to teach neutrally buoyant... That's when I started incorporating it in my pool sessions. When NASE wrote an article about the benefits in their blog... I really started incorporating it... at most... my students do pool session #1 in the fin pivot position. About half nail neutrally buoyant in the first pool session...

What did I learn from it?

1) It's easier to teach neutrally than on the knees.
2) Pool session #3 is a piece of cake, because the students already perfected the fin pivot.
3) Most of my students look like experienced divers on O/W dive 1...

The biggest stroke to my ego is when another instructor comes up to me after a dive and asks me if I'm teaching an AOW class... then watching their jaw drop when I say... "open water"...

I do have to give credit to Pete Murray and NASE for a lot of the encouragement and tips to neutrally...

 

[victorzamora]

Fins under you? PLEASE don't do that when you get to my reefs in Key Largo. Sorry Tampa, It's not just you. It's a large percentage of the instructors/students that come down here and kick up our fragile reefs.

Yup. It HORRIFIES me to see this. I was in Roatan 18 months ago, and this (clearly) hungover couple of guys were diving with us. When they weren't bouncing off the reef or dragging their dangling gear through the reef, they made sure to do continuous damage by kicking it to death. I dragged them off the reef several times, inflated for them more than once, and picked up their octos a couple of times. If you want to be a moron, that's fine....but don't do it over a reef. Go to a swimming pool, or back to the frat house. Stay OFF the beautiful, fragile reef. The day I lose it and start start spearing these guys, I think it'll be pretty justified. I just hope it's not too late.

The saddest part of that statement is the fact that people are becoming instructors with that same mentality and skill level. I saw an OWSI (about to get MSDT) that I thought was a really confident new OW diver.

when a diver has to go vertical to clear their mask, it is not uncommon for that diver to suddenly find themselves 20ft higher than when they started. This leads to ear/equalization issues.

I didn't even think about the fact that if a diver goes "down" to vertical (dropping knees) they become more negative, and MUCH more positive if they go head up...simply because the center of buoyancy is changing depth and compressing/expanding accordingly. Staying flat through all skills and excercises also helps maintain buoyancy. Good call.

---------- Post added August 2nd, 2013 at 12:40 PM ----------

John and Pete: To your comments about "harder" not being "better"....I tend to agree with you. You can't teach someone algebra using Calc-based proofs. You can't teach someone to read by handing them Shakespeare or Beowulf. However, I don't think that's the "only" thing making it easier. Like with most things now, scuba courses have gotten easier. Partially because we're better at teaching things, but partially because the bar has been lowered. The easiest scuba class is "insert reg in mouth, breathe". DONE! That doesn't mean they're a good diver. Teaching a class efficiently and quickly is fine, as long as the bar is still high. Are the divers in Elena's picture really above the bar we should be using? Or is there a lower bar?

Harder doesn't mean better, but neither does easier. Best is jumping over a high bar as easy as is practicable.

Note: I assume you guys aren't saying that, but I just wanted it to be clear.

 

[The Chairman]

NetDoc: How much harder was it for you to train your students in horizontal trim mid-water? The main reason I think kneeling is still prevailing is the cost (time) involved with teaching students to hover is assumed to be high. I'm assuming most people realize that disposable income is dropping, so the cost of scuba training is dropping, and corners are being cut. If the time involved isn't (much) higher....there might be a better argument for going to hover.

It's actually easier for me to teach this way. Using the old method, you always had to worry about a student bolting for the surface. You really had to be on your guard for this. Why? They were inherently uncomfortable in the water and even more so when they finally left the bottom. They didn't have the time needed to get used to the balancing act since the bulk of instruction was done on the knees and the last part of the last session was devoted to actually looking like a diver.

Ask any diver what the hardest skill is to grasp and most will freely admit trim and buoyancy. It simply takes a lot of time and for some reason, the majority of instructors introduce this skill almost dead last. I make it the first skill to master and that works wonders for me and my students. Here in the Keys, I normally teach in two pool sessions while most of the LDSs here do it in one.

 

[LowDrag]

When I did OW last year we were on our knees the entire time. When I would lose my balance I would stand up. The instructor or DiveConn would immediately ask me if I was okay thinking I was about to bolt to the surface. I find myself wishing I had been taught by some of the instructors on this board that teach while hovering. I watch YouTube video's quite a bit and find that I like the UTD, GUE & DIR video's that show a diver doing their skills while hovering ~12" off the bottom and not stirring up any silt. Here is one video that I particularly like because it shows that skills CAN be done in the horizontal without causing divers issues.

Enjoy:

[video=youtube;-xluZR2ZgDE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xluZR2ZgDE[/video]

PS: I am NOT preaching UTD, GUE or DIR. I just find that I like their video's.

 

[beanojones]

Worth pointing out that that video, like a lot of DIR/GUE videos, shows divers holding their breath which is a simple way to die in recreational scuba.

And it also hides the fact breathing and bouyancy are intricately related.

 

[Glenlivet]

Worth pointing out that that video, like a lot of DIR/GUE videos, shows divers holding their breath which is a simple way to die in recreational scuba.

Let me get that right: in your opinion, holding your breath while neutrally buoyant is a simple way to die?

 

[The Chairman]

Let me get that right: in your opinion, holding your breath while neutrally buoyant is a simple way to die?

Applied physics doesn't seem to be Beano's strong suit. Occluding your airway is problematic only if you're ascending. Many agencies want to see a trickle of air coming from the mouth to signify a student's understanding of this concept. I teach my students that BOYLES Law really stands for "Breathe Or Your Lungs Explode, Stupid!"

IRL, everyone pauses when they breathe. Everyone and it's not the same as holding your breath. Timing that pause can really help you to maintain your buoyancy. Sometimes I pause after I inhale and sometimes after I exhale. More often, it's somewhere between the two. Just be sure to keep your airway open, especially if you are ascending.

 

[beanojones]

Applied physics doesn't seem to be Beano's strong suit.

Situational awareness does not seem to be yours.

A thread about the Open Water Course in the Basic Scuba Discussion forum is the place to say holding your breath is wrong because holding your breath kills divers in Open Water Classes every year.

 

[victorzamora]

Regardless of breath holding, I don't think any new ow student would be able to hold buoyancy and trim like a tech diver.... much less a UTD or GUE instructor. Maintaining sufficient buoyancy control wouldn't require breath hold.
I agree that holding your breath isn't something to be condoned in a basic scuba discussion forum. However, I know that holding your breath with no depth change is completely harmless.

The point is that no breath hold will still allow for mid water skills

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

 

[LowDrag]

My point in posting this video is not that OW divers can be like this guy right out of the gate but that doing skills in a horizontal position can be done. I realize this guy is really good at his trim and buoyancy but it still shows that it can be done. IMO there is nothing wrong with striving to be this good without being DIR, GUE or UTD not that there is anything wrong with any of these organizations.

Worth pointing out that that video, like a lot of DIR/GUE videos, shows divers holding their breath which is a simple way to die in recreational scuba.

And it also hides the fact breathing and bouyancy are intricately related.

Give me a break Beano...I swear, where do you come up with some of the crap you spew on this board??? Do you think that you only die in rec diving if you hold your breath? Do you really think the tech divers don't realize this? He is not ascending, he is staying in one spot so lung expansion from holding ones breathe is not a huge issue. Breathe holding is not the question here.

I would also like to point out that you should not read anything into the posting of the video. It is merely to show what can be done.