In Water Recompression vs Missed Deco

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Diver0001:
It's not a crazy idea. In water recompression will work as you suspect it does *if you do it right* and there have been cases of divers who have probably saved their own lives using this technique--Richard Pyle comes to mind. He still got badly bent but he didn't die.

However, having said that, the logistics involved and the risk of the victim drowning or becoming hypothermic make it very impractical for all but the most well prepared dive teams who are diving in ideal conditions. Immediate evacuation to a hospital is generally thought to be a far superior response.

R..

Folks,

RO has the right "handle" on this one. Please note his comment..."if you do it right"...! It takes equipment, knowledge, and training to get it right. If you have that, it works like a champ. If you don't...well...Mia Tegner's case is sad, but illustrative.
 
Diver0001:
It's not a crazy idea. In water recompression will work as you suspect it does *if you do it right* and there have been cases of divers who have probably saved their own lives using this technique--Richard Pyle comes to mind. He still got badly bent but he didn't die.

However, having said that, the logistics involved and the risk of the victim drowning or becoming hypothermic make it very impractical for all but the most well prepared dive teams who are diving in ideal conditions. Immediate evacuation to a hospital is generally thought to be a far superior response.

R..

Here is the link to previous thread on this subject with lots of good discussion and also some informative links (if they are still working).

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=61102&highlight=In+Water+Recompression

Rickg
 
I want to second the distinction between In Water Recompression (IWR) and completing an omitted decompression stop and clarify the difference.

The US Navy tables include provisions for omitted decompression as did PADI when I certified in 1985 (the PADI tables at that time were 140' versions of the US Navy tables with provision for decompression not requiring a stop greater than 10 ft as well as provisions for omitted decompression.)

The US Navy Ommitted Deco Procedure for ommitted or interupted stops shallower than 20 ft was:

1. If the diver can be returned to the ommitted stop within 1 minute, he could complete the normal decompression stops with a 1 minute extension of the omiited stop. (That basically meant ascending, getting a tank or surface supplied reg handed to them in the water and immediately descending, then adding a minute to the interupted stop to make up for the missed minute.)

2. If the diver required more than 1 minute to return to the stop, he had to continue to be symptom free and then repeat the 20 ft and 10 ft stops with the times multiplied by 1.5.

For omitted or interrupted stops greater than 20 ft:

1. The diver must be symptom free and return to the stop in less than 5 minutes, then must:

A. Repeat all stops below 40 ft,
B. Stop at 40 ft for 1/4 the omitted 10 ft stop time
C. Stop at 30 ft for 1/3 the omitted 10 ft stop time
D. Stop at 20 ft for 1/2 the omitted 10 ft stop time
E. Stop at 10 ft for 1 and 1/2 times the omitted 10 ft stop time

If the diver showed any signs or symptoms of DCS, chamber recompression was required. In practice, the US Navy did not allow decompression dives unless an on board recompression chamber was available. So in practice, this procedure would only be used in the rare event that a decompression dive was required for some exceptional cuircumstance.

The PADI omitted deco procedure was limited to missed deco stops of 10 ft (their table did not allow for stops deeper than 10 ft), was generally more conservative (as it used a modified "greater than 20 ft" US Navy protocol), and consisted of the following:

1. Be symptom free
2. Return to the water in less than 5 minutes
3. Stop at 40 ft for 1/4 the omitted 10 ft stop time
4. Stop at 30 ft for 1/3 the omitted 10 ft stop time
5. Stop at 20 ft for 1/2 the omitted 10 ft stop time
6. Stop at 10 ft for 1 and 1/2 times the omitted 10 ft stop time

So essentially, if you have DCS symptoms it is no longer ommitted decompression but rather in water recompression which is an entirely different thing.

If you are using air for IWR, the depth needed for effective treatment is 165 ft and the time required will be 5 hours. This makes the whole enterprise very difficult to do in anything other than warm water with good visibility, little or no current, etc. It will also require an attendent and the 165 ft initial depth makes narcosis for both the patient and the attendent a significant risk factor.

If this is not bad enough already, the procedure carries the risk of making the DCS hit worse and there is no way to abort the procedure half way through, which could get interesting if a storm blows in an hour or two into the 5 hour procedure. It is basically not a workable proposition to do it on air.

An alternative IWR treatment was develped in the 1970's using oxygen. This requires 100% O2 starting at 30 ft and a total time of 3 hours in water. There is an obvious risk here of oxygen toxicity and a full face mask is required for the patient. An attendant is required as is an O2 supply fort he patient adequate for 3 hours and the same potential for hypothermia and the resulting limitation to warm water remains.

Also, given the precise and very gradual ascent rates required, it is recommended that the patient have a bar or trapeze arrangement to sit on that can be precisely raised at the required times by the surface support staff.

The good news is that the procedure is not likely to make the divers condition worse and it can be aborted at any time. However the requirements of IWR with 100% O2 make it a procedure that definitely has to be precontemplated with the neccesary O2, equipment, planning, schedules and staff assembled and trained in advance. So it is possibly an option if you are doing expedition diving in the south pacific somewhere a long way from a chamber and have planned for this contingency. It is not a viable option for a recreational diver who is within several hours of a chamber.

In short, an ommitted deco procedure is a valid option IF AND ONLY IF:

1 The diver is REALLY symptom free (as opposed to just being in denial)
2. The surface interval is LESS THAN 5 MINUTES
3. The diver knows what he or she is doing
4. The diver has adequate surface support and
5. The diver has a BUDDY IN THE WATER to get him to the surface in case something goes wrong.

IWR is not, in my opinion, a valid option for a recreational diver.

The only generally accepted procedure for a recreational diver who has symptoms of DCS is to put the diver on 100% O2 as quickly as possible and transport the diver to a hospital as soon as possible. In some mild DCS cases, the symptoms may resolve on their own with administration of 100% O2, but the diver still needs to seek medical treatment.
 
I think theres a big difference here between full in water recompression of a diver with DCI symptoms and someone who has just missed stops that for the moment isnt symptomatic.

The first is hard, fairly risky and requires specialist equipment. The latter is something that if i missed stops id want done. For missed stops going back down near immediately may well stop a bend happening. Staying on the boat on O2 is just treating the bend that will arrive - its a treatment not a cure.

Odd how 2 threads on this appear in 2 separate parts of this board on the same day.
 
I remember a classic example of this where a diver on the Doria (200+ feet) diving off the Seeker and blew all his deco and came right to the surface. They had him back down and after supplying him many cylinders of gas and using a computer to recalculate a deco schedule for him he came out of the water DCS free after 4 hours, although he was hypothermic. So if you have the resources, the training, and probably some luck you should be okay.
 
DA Aquamaster:
IWR is not, in my opinion, a valid option for a recreational diver.

IWR is a perfectly valid procedure for a recreational diver, depending on the situation, if you have the training, equipment, and personnel for it.
 
BigJetDriver:
IWR is a perfectly valid procedure for a recreational diver, depending on the situation, if you have the training, equipment, and personnel for it.
Do you mean this as in "In Water Recompression" as in treating actual symptoms of the bends by going back down? If that's the case I hope you are referring to very well trained and very well equipped tech divers in the middle of no where as being "recreational" divers. "Having the training, equipment, and personnel for it" is a very tall order.
 
In answer to your question, yes, I do. Ever known anyone to get paid for fun diving?:D

It is truly not, however, a tall order. The equipment, while specific, is not complex. The table is straight-forward. So is the amount of required personnel. Having the environmental conditions correct, however, can be problematic.
 
BigJetDriver:
In answer to your question, yes, I do. Ever known anyone to get paid for fun diving?:D

It is truly not, however, a tall order. The equipment, while specific, is not complex. The table is straight-forward. So is the amount of required personnel. Having the environmental conditions correct, however, can be problematic.
To amplify what's being said here, the bottom line is that most recreational dive operations and most recreational dive "teams" lack the equipment, lack the training, lack the tables, and lack the personnel to expect a successful IWR (IWR, not missed deco) outcome. The thought that IWR is a viable option for most recreational divers is just wrong. That's not to say that it can't be done... it ain't rocket science... but if you intend to include IWR in your "bag of tricks" then you need to make sure you and your team (1) are trained to do it and have practiced the procedures under likely scenarios, (2) are routinely "overdressed" to the extent that you can handle the time in the water without severe hypothermia, (3) have enough excess gas, and (4) have enough trained people to keep a support diver with the recompressing diver at all times.
Rick
 
Okay, I have re-titled this thread to give it some definition and clarity.

There are actually two separate subjects in this discussion.

(1) The procedure known as In Water Recompression or IWR, whether you are using the Hawaiian method, Australian method, or another, is one subject.

(2) Procedures promulgated by various training agencies and used in cases where you, the diver, have missed or ommitted some portion of your ascent procedures, is another.

Please clarify your intent when entering your comments.

R. Davie
SB Staff
 

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