What are you using for weight system?
Impressed with Scubapro customer service
- Thread starter Gelirfella
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What are you using for weight system?
OP
Gelirfella
Contributor
I’m not sure yet. I’m brand new, working on OW Cert. suspect with the SS backplate for most conditions I won’t need extra weight. With a traditional BCD just had 4 pounds with an AL80. The trim pockets they sell are on the expensive side for what they are. Suspect I could make the same thing work with a piece of webbing and some cheap trim pockets. Not sure where it will finally end up.
L13
Contributor
Modern computers can store hundreds of hours of dive data (I don't know if the G2tek is an exception).
Closer to 2% chance of being bent.
Which is why you believe the fairy tale that it is "very high risk." It is higher risk that most people want to take, but far from "already bent."
DAN has just re-opened the idea of in water re-compression in certain situations. Wearing a computer that could lock out eliminates that option.
I have lots of SucbaPro gear (probably 2/3 SP overall). The only interaction with their customer support I had was great. But the above claims are fairy tales, and not them at their finest.
OP
Gelirfella
Contributor
Would love to see the article where they estimate this. Not sure my statement was exact enough to provide something to estimate off of. Prognosticating pathophysiology is hard. I’m not a hyperbaric doc. But I am a physician and for most illnesses with much more data than DCI we still aren’t great at it even with large data sets. Just taking the percentages of people who’ve been bent certainly wouldn’t work.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. Just saying I doubt you’re right and would be interested to see the science. So far have been focused on the basic physiology of hyperbarics as well as it is understood. (Which is not very well).
Maybe. But as I said. A man who really did not have to take his time make his case or explain his thoughts to me did, and that matters. If you think he’s just shilling something and lying to my face I’ll have to disagree. Maybe he’s wrong, but he was genuine. My definition of good customer support does not require that the person on the other end is right. Only that they are trying and genuinely care. He did. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with that sentiment.
OP
Gelirfella
Contributor
This is an interesting point. I actually discussed this with Mr. Rhea. And it was stated that the reason for waiting 3 minutes and not instantly locking out is exactly this. For example, you pass of an injured buddy and then dive back down or call for a tank and dive back down.
I suppose you are talking about someone who fully exits the water becomes symptomatic and does not have access to a hyperbaric chamber but is demonstrating severe DCI. In which case I believe DAN suggest recompression may be performed with 2 trained divers assisting the injured diver. I’m also curious how you would use a dive computer to execute the task. i suspect there is almost no data to guide practice on this and everything is just applied theory at the moment. Do you go back all the way to the deco stop with a diver who might decompensate acutely underwater? Or do you use a predetermined depth to achieve 2.8 atmospheres to mimic a chamber? Not sure the divers personal dive computer is useful in that case. Also, truly an edge case we are talking about here. Not relevant for me at this time. But it is an interesting thought. And if the 3 minute timer meaningfully impairs this function it should be reconsidered. I’m just not sure dive computers are going to be guiding in water recompression for a decompensating diver right now.
I just put the G2 Tek into a pressure pot so that the actual behavior for missed mandatory decompression stops can be accurately described.
Since the G2 Tek will adjust the gradient factors to provide the next stop depth in the event of a missed stop, I set the computer to 100/100 and descended to 235 feet. After 8 minutes I started ascent to the first stop depth of 30ft.
By the time I reached 30 feet the stop schedule was:
30ft - 1 minute
20 ft - 4 minutes
10 ft - 5 minutes
I intentionally ascended past 30 ft to a depth of 17ft. I stayed at this depth for 5 minutes. The computer never "locked up" or went into gauge mode, however it never adjusted the stops. They remained as
30ft - 1 minute
20 ft - 4 minutes
10 ft - 5 minutes
When I descended back down to 30ft, I was able to clear the 30 ft stop. Then I had a 4 minute stop at 20ft. I ascended to 20ft and stayed 2 minutes. When I had 2 minutes left, I ascended to 10 feet and stayed another 5 minutes. The stop times never changed, while I was at 10 feet. I descended back down to 20 and cleared the 20ft stop after 2 minutes. I ascended to 8 feet and the 10ft stop never counted down. I ascended to the surface and then the computer went into a 24 hour SOS mode.
My Findings:
As long as you can descend back to the stop depth indicated, the G2 Tek will not lock you out and will start the deco countdown again once you reach the stop depth. However, if you are unable to descend back to the first stop, there will be no recalculation at the shallower depth and the computer will be of little use beyond providing you the depth and dive time. It will show you the stop depth that you need to descend to to start the deco algorithm running again, but will not recalculate any stops at the shallower depth in the event you cannot descend.
Since the G2 Tek will adjust the gradient factors to provide the next stop depth in the event of a missed stop, I set the computer to 100/100 and descended to 235 feet. After 8 minutes I started ascent to the first stop depth of 30ft.
By the time I reached 30 feet the stop schedule was:
30ft - 1 minute
20 ft - 4 minutes
10 ft - 5 minutes
I intentionally ascended past 30 ft to a depth of 17ft. I stayed at this depth for 5 minutes. The computer never "locked up" or went into gauge mode, however it never adjusted the stops. They remained as
30ft - 1 minute
20 ft - 4 minutes
10 ft - 5 minutes
When I descended back down to 30ft, I was able to clear the 30 ft stop. Then I had a 4 minute stop at 20ft. I ascended to 20ft and stayed 2 minutes. When I had 2 minutes left, I ascended to 10 feet and stayed another 5 minutes. The stop times never changed, while I was at 10 feet. I descended back down to 20 and cleared the 20ft stop after 2 minutes. I ascended to 8 feet and the 10ft stop never counted down. I ascended to the surface and then the computer went into a 24 hour SOS mode.
My Findings:
As long as you can descend back to the stop depth indicated, the G2 Tek will not lock you out and will start the deco countdown again once you reach the stop depth. However, if you are unable to descend back to the first stop, there will be no recalculation at the shallower depth and the computer will be of little use beyond providing you the depth and dive time. It will show you the stop depth that you need to descend to to start the deco algorithm running again, but will not recalculate any stops at the shallower depth in the event you cannot descend.
I feel the need to clarify that the statement "However, if you are unable to descend back to the first stop, there will be no recalculation at the shallower depth and the computer will be of little use beyond providing you the depth and dive time."
This statement is based on diving with a GF of 100/100. Since I think almost all divers with this computer will be using a GF value less than 100/100, then be aware that the computer will recalculate stop depth by adjusting to the next higher GF value that matches the next shallower stop depth. It is only when you have missed enough stops that the next stop depth is recalculated at 100/100 where the condition I describe will occur.
OP
Gelirfella
Contributor
This is important. I’m not even sure what you would program for behavior beyond the M line. Lot’s of decisions would have to be made about what type of risk you are going to take with any math you do beyond the M line. Are there any computers that do this? What do they do? Lots of people talk about their computer recalculating stops. But no one really dives at gf 100/100. It’s a real edge case where you’ve blown past a gf 100/100 stop but want to stay in the water and can’t get back down to depth. And to reiterate, you have 3 minutes at the surface to execute any emergency procedures (hand off a buddy, call for a fresh tank, call for help, etc) before you are locked out. I don’t personally know if that is enough time. But that is what Scubapro thinks is a reasonable threshold beyond which your chances of immediate recompression without consequence become negligible. And if you want to try on water recompression because the nearest tank is forever away and you have severe symptoms you need to get a qualified team together anyways and as of right now I believe in water recompression procedures don’t dictate going to the deepest stop missed unless it is above a certain depth. Not sure, I haven’t read them. But it wouldn’t make sense to go back down to say 40m I don’t think. That’s beyond what they would likely do in a recompression chamber anyways as I think standard is 2.8 ATA.
L13
Contributor
Ideally, a DC would continue to calculate tissue saturation regardless of depth, time, or GF exceeding any threshold. And would continue to display current GF99 and SurfGF. And would continue to report the depth at which GF would be below the current GF threshold for the current tissue loading.
Locking out always prevents the user from getting useful information and making informed decisions. The greater the violation of deco, the more valuable that information is for making good decisions.
There is nothing magical about 3 minutes on the surface that is different from 3 minutes at any other depth above a deco stop which produces the same excursion beyond the GF or M line. There is nothing magical about 3 minutes.
which is safer, 3min at 6m at 110% M value, or 3min at the surface at 101% M value? Which one locks you out? Which is safer, going back down with only 28% O2 at 2:45 or taking an extra few seconds to grab a bottle of 100% O2 and going back down at 3:01? What if I think I can grab the bottle in 10sec but I'm only 6sec wrong? The DC has no knowledge of all the other factors, and therefore shouldn't be forcing decisions.
Locking out always prevents the user from getting useful information and making informed decisions. The greater the violation of deco, the more valuable that information is for making good decisions.
There is nothing magical about 3 minutes on the surface that is different from 3 minutes at any other depth above a deco stop which produces the same excursion beyond the GF or M line. There is nothing magical about 3 minutes.
which is safer, 3min at 6m at 110% M value, or 3min at the surface at 101% M value? Which one locks you out? Which is safer, going back down with only 28% O2 at 2:45 or taking an extra few seconds to grab a bottle of 100% O2 and going back down at 3:01? What if I think I can grab the bottle in 10sec but I'm only 6sec wrong? The DC has no knowledge of all the other factors, and therefore shouldn't be forcing decisions.
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