I'm astonished with this SAC

[Nemrod]

OK, I confess, you caught me. That was a bad day, I usually get two hours out of an aluminum 80. Guess I should cut back on the beer on the trip out. Skip breathing, SOP. I could use doublees but I always figured if I just breathed half as much that ought to come out about equal.

N

 

[jefffalcone]

Absolutely!





if there are a bunch of great non DIR divers out there!! Glad to know it! hope that!!
unfortunately I haven't seen them too often

Statements like this are exactly why a lot of people don't like DIR.

 

[scarefaceDM]

Ya know this is why MANY folks shun the DIR philosophy...the arrogance that newly trained DIR divers have. Cocky attitudes. holier than thou. Which gives the GUE trained divers a bad rap.

I have seen several DIR divers in there little corner not speaking to anyone and giving the other divers the once over and whispering what ever to each other, Mocking divers. Out of shape, old gear etc.. what ever. Scrutinizing and then preaching about the bad habits one gets because they were OTHER agency trained.
I also see a non DIR diver walk up and ask said DIR diver a few questions. The non DIR diver came back and said to me...« what a bunch of morons»

That little crack about never seeing good divers....you should get out more. You're trapped in a circle, going around and around. That is the negative attitude a good DIR diver should not take.

Again DIR is about sharing, not preaching.

It is good that you want to improve..all the power to you. But start with the better attitude. Knock the ego down a little and then your eyes will open to the endless possibilities and see that PEOPLE are different. Some are nervous as hell and some are just so calm.

You have to sometime chalk it up to experience, something which you will gain with time.

Safe dives David.

Absolutely!

Too cheap and soon to say that

if there are a bunch of great non DIR divers out there!! Glad to know it! hope that!!
unfortunately I haven't seen them too often

but anyway I will like to point the discussion on to what it is my primary concern... How is possible that SAC doing all the things he did (DIR or not)?? and I did asked him but he just said it was normal to him and he had made much better profiles

 

[JeffG]

<snicker>

Again DIR is about sharing, not preaching.

Actually. Its about diving.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I've only seen Internet DIR divers with that attitude. Real life, never.

 

[danvolker]

Ya know this is why MANY folks shun the DIR philosophy...the arrogance that newly trained DIR divers have. Cocky attitudes. holier than thou. Which gives the GUE trained divers a bad rap.

I have seen several DIR divers in there little corner not speaking to anyone and giving the other divers the once over and whispering what ever to each other, Mocking divers. Out of shape, old gear etc.. what ever. Scrutinizing and then preaching about the bad habits one gets because they were OTHER agency trained.
I also see a non DIR diver walk up and ask said DIR diver a few questions. The non DIR diver came back and said to me...« what a bunch of morons»

That little crack about never seeing good divers....you should get out more. You're trapped in a circle, going around and around. That is the negative attitude a good DIR diver should not take.

Again DIR is about sharing, not preaching.

It is good that you want to improve..all the power to you. But start with the better attitude. Knock the ego down a little and then your eyes will open to the endless possibilities and see that PEOPLE are different. Some are nervous as hell and some are just so calm.

You have to sometime chalk it up to experience, something which you will gain with time.

Safe dives David.

I expect you know that DIR ideas do NOT make these obnoxious divers act this way--they were obnoxious people prior to ever learning DIR.
Find a diver who is a nice social person, the kind of person you like to hang out with--see what happens to them if they get GUE or DIR trained....they remain nice people, and will not be obnoxious. Blame this on the parents and peer groups.

I will agree that if you give an insecure person a gun, they are more likely to "brandish it". With DIR, it can be a way for someone with a poor self image to degrade others. And then you have the element of altruism which will cause some DIR divers to desire to share their DIR ideas with non-DIR divers. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this ( I have certainly done both , and there is the right "place and time" for this, and the wrong place and time. As far as I know, nobody is teaching DIR people how to properly "divine" these rights from wrongs, if they don't know this intuitively.

It is a good aspect of human nature to desire to share something that provides better survival value to others you are exposed to. Again, the "how to share" part of this is a problem.

Back in the 90's when George Irvine and I were heavily on the Techlist and Cavers list, George used something akin to "WWF Wrestling media personna" tactics to get his message out all over the world, quickly, efficiently, and for zero advertising or any other expense.
I can think of few other scenarios where the DIR ideas could have been propagated so far and fast, and had so much effect on divers all over the world....and this was done at no expense, and against the considerable ad budgets of the dive training agencies which had obviously "competing" messages.

However, it pissed off many people so much they still have their hair stand up when they hear DIR or George's name. And there is also the residual effect of new DIR disciples wanting to "be like George", and to trash the non-DIR divers verbally.
I might try to argue that what George did on the techlist and on diveboats in the 90's was warranted for the END it represented ( and I was doing this as well, so I better argue for this )....but today I would not discuss DIR ideas in any manner similar. And I would never try to make other divers on a diveboat uncomfortable. The way DIR gets discussed needs to be evolved--there is no doubt. And those that hate DIR so much, because of the insults of old ( or because of a butthead who also happens to be DIR), I would hope that you would look beyond all of this---any value there can only help.

Regards,
Dan Volker

 

[scarefaceDM]

I stand corrected - its about sharing diving not preaching diving.

thank Jeff for Sharing the thought..

<snicker>

Actually. Its about diving.

 

[novicediver]

Maybe this guy was what I call an "Obi - Wan" diver. Just a relaxed easy going diver out to enjoy the water.

 

[scarefaceDM]

nicely put Dan

Indeed I do know that DIR does not create obnoxious...they were already that. You have to admit, there are a few handfulls that will preach and dictate in arrogance which does put a black mark on true DIR /GUE diving philosophy and mind set of diving.

Safe dives.

I expect you know that DIR ideas do NOT make these obnoxious divers act this way--they were obnoxious people prior to ever learning DIR.
Find a diver who is a nice social person, the kind of person you like to hang out with--see what happens to them if they get GUE or DIR trained....they remain nice people, and will not be obnoxious. Blame this on the parents and peer groups.

I will agree that if you give an insecure person a gun, they are more likely to "brandish it". With DIR, it can be a way for someone with a poor self image to degrade others. And then you have the element of altruism which will cause some DIR divers to desire to share their DIR ideas with non-DIR divers. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this ( I have certainly done both , and there is the right "place and time" for this, and the wrong place and time. As far as I know, nobody is teaching DIR people how to properly "divine" these rights from wrongs, if they don't know this intuitively.

It is a good aspect of human nature to desire to share something that provides better survival value to others you are exposed to. Again, the "how to share" part of this is a problem.

Back in the 90's when George Irvine and I were heavily on the Techlist and Cavers list, George used something akin to "WWF Wrestling media personna" tactics to get his message out all over the world, quickly, efficiently, and for zero advertising or any other expense.
I can think of few other scenarios where the DIR ideas could have been propagated so far and fast, and had so much effect on divers all over the world....and this was done at no expense, and against the considerable ad budgets of the dive training agencies which had obviously "competing" messages.

However, it pissed off many people so much they still have their hair stand up when they hear DIR or George's name. And there is also the residual effect of new DIR disciples wanting to "be like George", and to trash the non-DIR divers verbally.
I might try to argue that what George did on the techlist and on diveboats in the 90's was warranted for the END it represented ( and I was doing this as well, so I better argue for this )....but today I would not discuss DIR ideas in any manner similar. And I would never try to make other divers on a diveboat uncomfortable. The way DIR gets discussed needs to be evolved--there is no doubt. And those that hate DIR so much, because of the insults of old ( or because of a butthead who also happens to be DIR), I would hope that you would look beyond all of this---any value there can only help.

Regards,
Dan Volker

 

[TSandM]

I can empathize with the OP a little bit. He's living in a place where there is a lot of vacation diving, and he probably sees a lot of people with very little experience and some marginal education. It's not like Seattle, which selects for a more determined diver, I think.

One of the worst things about Fundies is that it's a lot of people's first exposure to that kind of diving, and it's easy to get the idea that only DIR divers have that degree of skill. Then you grow and learn that cave diving in general requires it, and that many technical divers have it, and that serious and experienced OW divers can be just as graceful and beautifully controlled in the water, although they look different.

I was guilty of overenthusiasm on the boards about DIR when I first got trained, although I hope I was never insulting or dismissive of anybody. I now know it's not the only road to good diving, although there are enough good things about the system that I definitely stay with it. I'm sure the OP will get there.