If you could change one thing about dive training...

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Sorry, do not agree on this one. While I am nitrox certified, it has its uses, but it is overkill in many situations. Of the local quarries near me (about 8 of them within 2 hours), only one is deeper than 50', and that one is blackout sulfur cloud below 65'. Nitrox is also double the price (8 vs 16) for a standard tank.

There are many people that would never need or want Nitrox, and adding that in to force everybody to learn it seems overkill imo.
While I also do agree with Divin' Papaw about knowing when to use Nitrox, I think the biggest (though only) negative for Nitrox IS that it usually costs double. Now, folks will say that one spends an awful lot on diving equipment (I do NOT), so Nitrox is worth the cost for the extra conservatism. But, not if you really don't need it with your depths, or you dive an very regularly with the expense adding up, or you really just can't afford it.
 
While I agree with @Divin'Papaw about including it in OW, agencies aren't going to give up the revenue for a cert course that is high profit low labor. My cert course took all of an hour of time with the instructor where he tested me on the knowledge I got from the material, had me analyze a couple different tanks and find the MOD for them at 2 different PPO2. I had to plan 2 dives each on tables and a computer.
Oh and I love my Nitrox it has allowed me to do as many a 6 dives in 1 day (1hr bottom time each) and not get within 30 minutes of going into deco.
 
I would actually like to see better regulation of the industry here in Australia.

Currently, there is no requirement to have a Working With Children Check (in most states) or a National Criminal History Check as a Divemaster or Instructor with ADAS, PADI or SSI (those are really the only three that teach diving in Australia and ADAS is for professional diving only).

With how transient SCUBA instructors are (pre-covid of course) and how easy it is to jump from one agency to another (go look at the PADI expelled DM/Instructor list and see how many of them jumped straight over to SSI) it is alarming that no one has cracked down on it.

I'm not saying it needs to be a hardcore licencing scheme, just a simple $30 background check in order to train children or other vulnerable people (i.e. women or the elderly).

I know of an instructor who was accused of (and possibly convicted - can't verify due to spent conviction laws) sexual harassment. PADI booted him out and within 2 years he was an SSI instructor. I don't like that scheme. You can be responsible for a divers death, rape a student or steal from students and even if you serve time in prison, agencies like PADI and SSI will welcome you with open arms, negligently giving you a power of authority/responsibility.
Along those lines I have been thinking of where to post the following question.

Should each agency be checking each other's expelled list and if that instructor is on one agency's list be denied instructor credentials for another agency? I am not an instructor but I have to think one has to do something egregious to be expelled ( not paying for renewal is not expelled so not to be included). So it would seem logical to me that the other agency would want to weed those bad instructors out of the industry. Now for the :popcorn: while the thread go nuts over this one!
 
Along those lines I have been thinking of where to post the following question.

Should each agency be checking each other's expelled list and if that instructor is on one agency's list be denied instructor credentials for another agency? I am not an instructor but I have to think one has to do something egregious to be expelled ( not paying for renewal is not expelled so not to be included). So it would seem logical to me that the other agency would want to weed those bad instructors out of the industry. Now for the :popcorn: while the thread go nuts over this one!

Should they? Absolutely. Most of us know of instructors who have been suspended or expelled and they just hop to another agency. It shouldn’t be that easy.

Technically they are supposed to disclose the facts to their new agency, but people like this of low ethics simply lie.

Unfortunately this will never happen. Agencies will cite privacy and legal concerns and unfortunately the consumer is the one put at risk as a result. Baring a legislative requirement to do so, which would have its own issues, the agencies will never share this level of personnel data with each other. Their focus is always minimizing their own legal risks not the risk to future dive students if this person just jumps agencies.
 
My point was that people get certified and then can choose to get further training for areas outside of their initial training.

The initial reason for scuba training was to reduce the diving accidents by giving a diver basic skills, an understanding of dive physiology, and the use of good judgement whilst diving.

The fact that shortcuts are taken and some divers are not given those skills, both now and back then, is not the fault of the certification, but of the instructors.

Until all instructors are true professionals, and their agencies enforce professionalism, the industry will continue as it has.
 
We had a great discussion of this topic in the Northwest History of Diving Association meeting yesterday. I started thinking about the topic on my drive back home, and when I got back decided to write to our President, Tom Hemphill, the following letter:
That was a very interesting discussion we had today. On the way home, I was thinking about the skill level of divers today, as there was definite concern. I came to one realization, and that was that with on-line training, we are keeping student divers from an activity which is essential to diving, psycho-motor skills. On-line training works only on mental training; knowing concepts, understanding things like the universal gas laws (Charles' Law, for instance). But it does nothing to help a student diver's ability to apply those concepts in the water.

Psychomotor learning
"Psychomotor learning is the relationship between cognitive functions and physical movement. Psychomotor learning is demonstrated by physical skills such as movement, coordination, manipulation, dexterity, grace, strength, speed—actions which demonstrate the fine or gross motor skills, such as use of precision instruments or tools, and walking.

"Behavioral examples include driving a car, throwing a ball, and playing a musical instrument. In psychomotor learning research, attention is given to the learning of coordinated activity involving the arms, hands, fingers, and feet, while verbal processes are not emphasized.[1]..."

Stages of psychomotor development
According to Paul Fitts and Michael Posner's three-stage model, when learning psychomotor skills, individuals progress through the cognitive stages, the associative stage, and the autonomic stage.[2] The cognitive stage is marked by awkward slow and choppy movements that the learner tries to control. The learner has to think about each movement before attempting it. In the associative stage, the learner spends less time thinking about every detail, however, the movements are still not a permanent part of the brain. In the autonomic stage, the learner can refine the skill through practice, but no longer needs to think about the movement.[3]

In the U.S. Naval School for Underwater Swimmers, we were given one task to fulfill which was required, and it demonstrated these psycho-motor skills. We had to dive into the bay at Key West to the bottom with a canvas bag, and inside were parts of a structure. We had to, as a buddy team in zero visibility, put together this tool underwater, and bring it back up in the bag fully assembled. If we did not do this, we would have "failed" and would have had to start the Underwater Swimmers School over again.

What does this demonstrate. First, that we could dive in zero visibility and, by feel with our buddy, take parts out, not lose them into the mud on the bottom, and figure out what part it was, and what part it went into. It was made of PVC pipe, and it had a peculiar configuration which we were shown before the dive. So we needed to be comfortable enough in our twin 90 scuba and in zero visibility to do the work. This demonstrates that the diver is comfortable in the water, in his/her gear, and can think about the assignment without undue concerns for personal wellbeing.

NAUI used to, in their 1975 Blue Book, have a complete section on "The Psychology of Learning." They defined learning as "a change in behavior as a result of experience." A bit further on, it states, "...learning physical skills involves more than muscles...It should have become obvious that, while a muscular sequence was being learned, other things were happening as well. The perception changed as the sequence became easier. Concepts of how to perform the skill were developed and attitudes were changed..."

It went on to show a graph, and stated, "...Most graphs of the progress of skill learning usually follow the same pattern. There is rapid improvement in the early trials. But the curve levels off and may stay level for significant periods of effort. Further improvement may seem unlikely. Such a development is a learning plateau and may signify any number of conditions. The learner may have reached the limits of his capability; he may be consolidating his level of skill; his interest may have waned; or he may need a more efficient method of increasing his progress. Keep in mind that the apparent lack of increasing proficiency does not necessarily mean that learning has ceased. The point is that, in learning motor skills, a leveling off process is normal and should be expected after an initial period of rapid improvement. Tthe instructor should prepare the student for this situation to ward off discouragement. If the student knows this may occur his frustration may be lessened..."

The NAUI Blue Book went on to discuss "The 'Laws' of Learning." This included the "Law of readiness, the "Law of exercise," the "Law of Effect," the "Law of primacy," the "Law of intensity," and the "Law of recency."

This is a very good section of the NAUI Blue Book that I have used for years in designing my safety training programs. This whole set of concepts about learning has been thrown out with the development of the E-Learning programs. I think this is an area where we can influence the diving industry to get back to the basics of dive training, and start graduating divers who are truly ready for the underwater environment.

John
What do you think?

SeaRat
 

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We had a great discussion of this topic in the Northwest History of Diving Association meeting yesterday. I started thinking about the topic on my drive back home, and when I got back decided to write to our President, Tom Hemphill, the following letter:

What do you think?

SeaRat
I must have missed the posts in which people were advocating using online learning as a substitute for the skills portion of OW training instead of only to replace the academic (book-learning) part. I am unaware of any agency that does this at all.
 
I must have missed the posts in which people were advocating using online learning as a substitute for the skills portion of OW training instead of only to replace the academic (book-learning) part. I am unaware of any agency that does this at all.
What we were talking about were course advertisements for scuba training that occurred over a weekend. Apparently, there are dive shops who squish the course into on-line training, and then only a few hours of pool and open water work. That is what I was talking about concerning psycho-motor skills needing more attention. It wasn't any posts here, but rather a discussion yesterday of our Northwest History of Diving Association. We were trying to discern why diving is in decline, and part of that was the lack of quality instruction.

SeaRat
 
What we were talking about were course advertisements for scuba training that occurred over a weekend. Apparently, there are dive shops who squish the course into on-line training, and then only a few hours of pool and open water work. That is what I was talking about concerning psycho-motor skills needing more attention. It wasn't any posts here, but rather a discussion yesterday of our Northwest History of Diving Association. We were trying to discern why diving is in decline, and part of that was the lack of quality instruction.

SeaRat
I don't know how other agencies do it, but in the ones I know you can't "squish" the online learning part unless you have someone doing it for you. The lessons have check quizzes, and you can't move from one to another without passing those quizzes. In contrast, you can easily squish a student through academics if you are using book learning with instructor review.

EDIT: After writing this, I remembered that I once made a presentation at a national conference about this topic. In traditional classrooms, the teacher conducting the class often does the work for the students without even realizing it. In an online program, the student has to do the actual work.

As for the physical part of training, here is what you wrote:
I came to one realization, and that was that with on-line training, we are keeping student divers from an activity which is essential to diving, psycho-motor skills.'

There is no relation between the use of online learning and the physical part of the course. Using online training does not require you to skip standards in the in-water instruction.
 
When I taught for a PADI shop, the owner wouldn't do anything but book work. We'd have students show up totally unprepared for the quizzes so there was 6-8 hours of lecture that had to be done to get them up to speed on the material that they'd allegedly read. When Covid hit, the owner finally moved to eLearning. I was absolutely shocked the first time I taught students who'd completed the online course. The poorest students understood and retained the material better than anyone I had taught previously.

These days I principally teach SDI. The open water course isn't as slick as PADI's, but the result is the same - a more prepared student. I still do lecture, but instead of reiterating the basics, I spend my time teaching more advanced information.
 
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