If you could change one thing about dive training...

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You have to know how to swim in order to get a OW dive cert. Your wife can't tow you around like a balloon on a string.

Unfortunately, a fairly new SB member cited an associate where the swim test is waived, as if he required that, he wouldn't be in business.

I have no idea how agencies can address willful violations like this.

 

[Hauer2841]

Unfortunately, a fairly new SB member cited an associate where the swim test is waived, as if he required that, he wouldn't be in business.

I have no idea how agencies can address willful violations like this.

I don't recall having to prove I could swim for either my OW or AOW. Of course it should have been evident in the pool sessions, but. . .

 

[boulderjohn]

The swim requirement was not part of my training, being one of the many standards that were skipped in order to get the class finished in 3 days. My entire confined water experience was 2 hours long in a pool that was 4-5 feet deep at most.

I don't believe the purpose of skipping it was because of a fear people could not do it. I think it was simply time usage and the lack of a suitable place to do it. I was in a resort area, and a typical pool there would have probably required about 50 laps.

Having instructed I can't imagine how many pool sessions, I have never had a student fail the swim test. With at least 80% of the students (and maybe more), you can see within 10-20 seconds they are going to be fine, and I was always so eager to get started with scuba that I dearly wanted to yank them out of the pool at that point. In a thread on this topic a decade or so ago, it was claimed that under NAUI rules, the instructor can pull the swimmer out of the water early if it is clear the requirement will be passed. IIRC, one of the people saying that, Thalassamania, supposedly wrote the rule for NAUI. I don't know if any of that is true.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with NorCalDM above with respect to 50 dives for AOW and 100 dives for DM. It makes sense to me. But because we're talking about ONE rule that would apply to everyone, I have to refer to a guided shore dive I did on Kauai back in 1995 (or so?).

You have to know how to swim in order to get a OW dive cert. Your wife can't tow you around like a balloon on a string.

No, you have to pass a swim test to get OW. You don't have to know how to swim properly. Swimming without a proper stroke may be akin to playing clarinet with the left & right hands in the wrong place. You can get some notes to work-- so I guess you could call that "playing the clarinet"--- if you want.
You can gut out 200 yards on a swim test and pass. To me, that is not my definition of knowing how to swim.
Old stuff on SB I know.
Boulderjohn just said he's never had a student fail the swim test. That does make one think, no?
Actually I can recall seeing one fail. This guy maybe did 2 laps then could not keep from sinking (very skinny, not in very good shape, had no stroke at all and got exhausted).

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I have never had a student fail the swim test.

I'm surprised as you have certified far more people than me and I've had two. I have students swim without aids (mask, fins, & snorkel). I was ready to jump into the water to grab one student as I was afraid he would drown. He stayed close to the wall (and me as I'd walk along and follow him) fortunately. And I've had one other that had no stroke whatsoever and wore himself out.

I simply wasn't going to take the risk in open water. Now as I was teaching at a shop, they both joined the next month's class and were certified.

 

[kensuf]

In a thread on this topic a decade or so ago, it was claimed that under NAUI rules, the instructor can pull the swimmer out of the water early if it is clear the requirement will be passed. IIRC, one of the people saying that, Thalassamania, supposedly wrote the rule for NAUI. I don't know if any of that is true.

Here's a cut and paste from the NAUI S&P. As you see, there's no distance requirement for the swim evaluation (aside from 15 stroke cycles), but there is for skin diving gear. There is no allowance to pull the skin diving swim early. NAUI instructors are allowed to teach beyond the standards and use the loved one principle, so if as a NAUI instructor you believe that you would not let a loved one dive with someone that lacks the physical fitness to swim 250 yards, you could make that a requirement.

Swimming Skills (confined or open water)- no equipment.
oDemonstrate novice level swim stroke proficiency in any of the following strokes: crawl, side, breast, elementary back, or back stroke. Classic stroke combinations are not necessary to meet this requirement as long as forward progress is achieved, e.g. no particular kick or arm action is necessarily required and a lack of either is also acceptable. Students shall complete at least 15 continuous stroke cycles while being evaluated by an instructor. A stroke cycle is considered to be either arm or leg action or a combination thereof resulting in forward movement.
oSurvival swim for 10 minutes.
oSwim underwater 15m (50 ft.) on one breath with no push-off or dive. The use of weights is permitted for students having difficulty remaining submerged. The use of a mask is permitted for students wearing contact lenses.

•Skin Diving (confined or open water) minimally equipped with mask, fins and snorkel.
oSwim 412m (450 yards) nonstop, breathing from snorkel. Bring another diver simulating unconsciousness to the surface from a depth of about 3m (10 ft.) of water.
oUsing proper techniques perform water entries and exits, surface dives, surface swimming, clearing the snorkel, ditching the weight system, buoyancy control, underwater swimming and surfacing.

One of my closest friends had a student that he had to rescue during the swim test. It turned out the student had had surgery to remove a lung and was incapable of strenuous activity, but lied on his medical form and was wearing a rash guard so the scar wasn't apparent.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here's a cut and paste from the NAUI S&P. As you see, there's no distance requirement for the swim evaluation (aside from 15 stroke cycles), but there is for skin diving gear.

Thanks! That is essentially what I understood. I thought the instructor could pull the student from a required distance after 15 strokes; I did not realize there was no required distance to begin with.

 

[2stroketony]

Only one thing really thins out the herd so here goes.
Basic training must include mastery of planning a dive by hand. No computers. Track your depth, bottom time using dive tables. Surface interval, repetitive tables, Decom stops or safety stops and then next and so on. By mastery I mean understanding of each step and cause and effect.
Naui 1983

 

[Alekseolsen]

Only one thing really thins out the herd so here goes.
Basic training must include mastery of planning a dive by hand. No computers. Track your depth, bottom time using dive tables. Surface interval, repetitive tables, Decom stops or safety stops and then next and so on. By mastery I mean understanding of each step and cause and effect.
Naui 1983

So, to fix the broken training, which relies on small pieces of stuff bemongkng in the museum, you want the folks to studenter archeology?
Nah, give me actual in water skills, and a thourough explanation of what the computer does. Learning to navigere PADI tables teaches you just that, CMAS or VSAC tables will have a different layout/way to work

 

[wnissen]

So, to fix the broken training, which relies on small pieces of stuff bemongkng in the museum, you want the folks to studenter archeology?
Nah, give me actual in water skills, and a thourough explanation of what the computer does. Learning to navigere PADI tables teaches you just that, CMAS or VSAC tables will have a different layout/way to work

Yep. People would be so much safer if they knew how to use the plan mode in their dive computer forwards and backwards.