If you could change one thing about dive training...

[TMHeimer]

Why?

GUE Fundies have waterskill test, which people fret at. Their 300yard swim must be completed in under 14 mins. So that's 21 yards per minute

PADI's minimum is a 400Yd swim, which has to be completed in under 12 mins. At GUE's swim rate this would be increased to 19 mins, which BTW is the max for the 800 yard with fins and snorkel.


The swim test is nothing more than a basic stamina test. In fact in Fitness tests for the military (for instance) there is a sliding scale of time allowed taking into account, participants sex and age. Not so with PADI (I presume other agencies too) Whether you're 18 or 50+ you have the same requirements and minimum standards

There's many things that could be improved for Entry to professional levels, the water skills section is not one of those that's needed

OK, here are my suggestions--

--800m mask fin snorkel swim-- increase to 1,200m and allow use of arms. That is what you'd do if doing a rescue as a DM. You wouldn't jump in to swim 200m and think "Gee, I can't use my arms, it's not allowed".
--15 minute float, last 2 mins. hands out of water-- make it longer, but explain that drown proofing is "legal" (I discovered that on scubaboard). The idea, i THINK is you should be able to survive if your boat sinks in fresh water (salt water of course is a lot easier to float in) or maybe long enough to rescue another. This is an odd test. I do think it should be included, but am not sure what it has to do with stamina. People vary so much in buoyancy. My wife can float in a fresh water pool vertically with hardly any hand/foot movement. I need to drown-proof to stay up (if my hands are out for 2 minutes-- with hands in a can stay afloat with lots of sculling--I can BARELY float in SALT water on my back). I've seen a guy float on his back in fresh water pool with maybe half of his body out of the water. It would be no "stamina" test for him.
--100m tired diver push--This one is the most practical as is. I would adjust the points for times based on the number of turns you have to make. This seriously affects time when you must slow down to turn like 10-20 times and someone else has 2 or even no turns. I've done it in a huge pool and a tiny one-- BIG difference in my times.
--400m swim-- eliminate it or just check one or two laps that candidate actually can do a PROPER swim stroke. It should have been established that this is so when the candidate took OW, but maybe he/she took OW at a shop that cut corners. There is virtually no scenario that would see a DM jump in the water, swim and rescue someone without fins on. I wouldn't, unless the victim was right close by-- how would you possibly tow someone back a long ways without fins?

Now I know some will say (and did years ago) that the DM stamina tests are not supposed to be related to stuff you may wind up doing as a DM, they are just stamina tests for their own sake (to assess fitness, etc.). I simply think this should be changed. They can just as well assess fitness/comfortability in water with my suggestions.

Oh, I would put the equipment exchange back to pass-fail. That has recently been discussed somewhere. I feel it would be difficult to judge each person individually for a mark when it is a "duet". Some instructors said they could easily do it. OK, I'm not an instructor, but have watched the duets on The Voice, and I disagree.
It always seems we are looking to revisit stuff and make changes, some of which appear to me to be just changes for change sake. Not just scuba organizations. Look at how often they tweak the CPR courses. 30 to 2-- no 15 to 2, no wait-- no rescue breaths at all now, just compressions. Why not revisit these stamina tests?

 

[Pressurehead]

How about a bit of fun.
I was doing a double dive on a shallow local reef [a weather system was coming and would be too rough to go where I like to dive, so found a spot on a local boat].
Anyway, an OW class was on the boat and it was fun to watch this instructor.
She is very good looking , I said to the students during a lull setting up " you guys are so lucky to have a pretty instructor, I remember mine form years ago and he had a face like a slapped arse", it broke the tension and we all had fun.
Sent my 'buddy' off with a dive guide and I did mine solo .
Such fun.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Teach the buddy system.....then tell students that if they are relying on the buddy system to save them....they are probably going to die if anything goes sideways. The buddy system, as it is taught, breeds complacency. If anything goes wrong, my buddy will save me. Easy peasy...

It's not hard to check your air. It's not hard to dive within your limits. Its not hard to teach that the diver, and only the diver, is responsible for their safety. It's not hard to hire a private divemaster if necessary.

I'd prefer teaching personal responsibility first with the buddy system as a horribly flawed backup plan that likely won't be there if you need it....

But that's just me.

Jay

 

[Centrals]

Buddy system is a good start.
Many new divers had forgot the meaning of "buddy check".

 

[TMHeimer]

Teach the buddy system.....then tell students that if they are relying on the buddy system to save them....they are probably going to die if anything goes sideways. The buddy system, as it is taught, breeds complacency. If anything goes wrong, my buddy will save me. Easy peasy...

It's not hard to check your air. It's not hard to dive within your limits. Its not hard to teach that the diver, and only the diver, is responsible for their safety. It's not hard to hire a private divemaster if necessary.

I'd prefer teaching personal responsibility first with the buddy system as a horribly flawed backup plan that likely won't be there if you need it....

But that's just me.

Jay

Absolutely. Students should be taught that if you don't stay together-- within aiding distance if trouble-- any buddy skills or drills are useless. That's why being a good " together" buddy can be a pain in the neck (literally too). Not having to be OCS about keeping a constant eye on a buddy is one reason I prefer solo. Once a year I dive with my brother with the idea of each of us going our own way. All the social benefits of a buddy without the sore neck.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Oh how I love something along this idea. Having some sort of apprenticeship would have been incredibly beneficial for myself when I first became an instructor

Technically that was the intent of MSDT, where after 25 certs you knew or at least had a clue how to teach. Unfortunately (and something I feel very strongly about) some IDC centres abuse the system, with new instructors paying extra for MSDT Cert, to stay for a further 2 weeks or so, effectively just being in the water for the certification dive and being given the cert with no proper teaching experience gained.

Team teaching has its place for sure, but at some point a new instructor must take a class on their own and experience the frustration and self doubt in themselves when a student doesn't get the skill, and they have to start digging deep to find other ways to convey the concept, and not be tempted to let the student move on past that skill for which they and the student are finding difficult.

IMHO New instructors should be limited to a max course size (4?) for a initial period of time, and perhaps MSDT isn't just applied for, but earned after a CD sits through your lessons in CW and OW. Only when you reach MSDT (or equivalent) are you allowed to teach bigger classes and younger age groups.

People forget that new instructors need support, and it's not just about teaching dive skills, often you have to help a student overcome fear or phobia, and they need to be able to turn to experience senior instructors for that. You can't pass IDC and be an experienced and competent instructor straight out of the box

I once had a middle age guy on OW, his 2 teenage kids were with another instructor because he was so slow. CW1 took an age, for CW2 we had the giant stride - from the poolside with a drop to the waters surface of around 12" - it took 25 mins to coax him into that one.

I got him through OW - it took 12 days. At each step I had to overcome his personal fears and not let him quit. They don't teach that in Instructor training.

Hardest cert ever!

 

[hedonist222]

If not make rescue diver obligatory, at least include primary elements of it in OW and AOW.

 

[oly5050user]

Technically that was the intent of MSDT, where after 25 certs you knew or at least had a clue how to teach. Unfortunately (and something I feel very strongly about) some IDC centres abuse the system, with new instructors paying extra for MSDT Cert, to stay for a further 2 weeks or so, effectively just being in the water for the certification dive and being given the cert with no proper teaching experience gained.

Team teaching has its place for sure, but at some point a new instructor must take a class on their own and experience the frustration and self doubt in themselves when a student doesn't get the skill, and they have to start digging deep to find other ways to convey the concept, and not be tempted to let the student move on past that skill for which they and the student are finding difficult.

IMHO New instructors should be limited to a max course size (4?) for a initial period of time, and perhaps MSDT isn't just applied for, but earned after a CD sits through your lessons in CW and OW. Only when you reach MSDT (or equivalent) are you allowed to teach bigger classes and younger age groups.

People forget that new instructors need support, and it's not just about teaching dive skills, often you have to help a student overcome fear or phobia, and they need to be able to turn to experience senior instructors for that. You can't pass IDC and be an experienced and competent instructor straight out of the box

I once had a middle age guy on OW, his 2 teenage kids were with another instructor because he was so slow. CW1 took an age, for CW2 we had the giant stride - from the poolside with a drop to the waters surface of around 12" - it took 25 mins to coax him into that one.

I got him through OW - it took 12 days. At each step I had to overcome his personal fears and not let him quit. They don't teach that in Instructor training.

Hardest cert ever!

I hope he was charged for the extra time he took (as it was 4x longer )and gave you a really decent tip on top of it.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I hope he was charged for the extra time he took (as it was 4x longer )and gave you a really decent tip on top of it.

Tipping crews, Instructors or DM's isn't a thing here. He also didn't get charged extra, apart from instructor time, he didn't use any extra resources. It's more important to spend the time and get it done right.

The look on his face when he certified, and conquered his fears and then went on his first post cert dive with his 2 kids and me guiding was absolutely worth it.

He at least wanted to put the time and effort in and really wanted to cert, rather than some, who expect to get a card from just attending with minimum effort and maximum whinging. I'm sure you've had them too

 

[oly5050user]

Tipping crews, Instructors or DM's isn't a thing here. He also didn't get charged extra, apart from instructor time, he didn't use any extra resources. It's more important to spend the time and get it done right.

The look on his face when he certified, and conquered his fears and then went on his first post cert dive with his 2 kids and me guiding was absolutely worth it.

He at least wanted to put the time and effort in and really wanted to cert, rather than some, who expect to get a card from just attending with minimum effort and maximum whinging. I'm sure you've had them too

Tipping crews, Instructors or DM's isn't a thing here. He also didn't get charged extra, apart from instructor time, he didn't use any extra resources. It's more important to spend the time and get it done right.

The look on his face when he certified, and conquered his fears and then went on his first post cert dive with his 2 kids and me guiding was absolutely worth it.

He at least wanted to put the time and effort in and really wanted to cert, rather than some, who expect to get a card from just attending with minimum effort and maximum whinging. I'm sure you've had them too

So the instructor who is probably already underpaid had to lose on this by needing to work 4 times longer for same pay. Not really very fair is it ? Yes I have had students like this but we charge for this. “The look on his face” does not pay the instructors bills. This is a huge problem in this industry . Instructors willing to work for next to nothing and then they complain about high cost of agency membership fees fees or insurance. People need to wake up and realize this is a business and treat it as such. Do you work at your “day job” for nothing? I do not and have no problem paying my fees or insurance. Have been an instructor for different agencies now for going on 50 years. Now retired from my day job with pension.