Identifying old Scubapro 1st and 2nd stages

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Hi all,

Here are some close-ups of my Mk10. ...
Looks like my four Mk10's. (I purchased mine new in 1987 and 1988.) This version is not cut with the channel that the SPEC ring (is that what it's called?) sits in.

I began using two of them for deco bottles for extended range Great Lakes diving in the mid-1990's. The first one was used as is (well, after being cleaned and then lubed with oxygen-compatible grease) on my deeper deco bottle. And the second was converted (using an OEM SP conversion kit) to be an oxygen reg and used on my shallow deco bottle. Both worked fine.

ETA: I never "environmentalized" any of them. And I switched them all to 300 Br DIN (using an OEM SP DIN kit).

ETA2: I used them on OMS (Faber) LP46 cylinders, my very first deco cylinders, pumped to 3,000 psig. No issues whatsoever.

rx7diver
 
Hi all,

I've collected a few regulator sets as part of 'assembling my 1st set of 2nd hand diving gear' purchases. Now, to prepare for a 2-tank config I was looking at what I had lying around and initially dismissed as 'old garbage'.
A quick google search told me that in fact ScubaPro regulators are among the best, and I may have something more than capable of serving as a regulator set for on a 2nd tank. However, due to them being purchased 2nd hand, I know nothing about them or their age of their previous owners (with all the stuff I got 2nd hand, I couldn't even remember what set I got where...).

So, I got one scubapro 1st stage, looks like new. Was used for a drysuit as far as I know. 5 ports in total. No model or so listed. Looking at other 1st stages, it may be some type of mk2, although these apparently have been in production for ages already. No clue about the age.

Then I got a 1st stage + 2nd + octopus:
The octopus is really small, and may be missing a front plate or so. apart from a serial or so no brand. The hose has a sleeve with oceanic on it though.
1st stage look very basic just a metal cylinder, but has 2 + 5 ports on a rotating turret. The yoke looks old, and has scubapro on it. The 2nd stage has 'Mark X Dual Balanced' on it.
Based on earlier posts on this forum that I found, it could mean that the 1st stage is a mk10, the 2nd a special European version of the 109 / 156 only sold like this in that specific configuration. That could mean that the set is close to 40 years old already.

If anyone can help me Identify exactly what these are and how useful they can be, that would be really nice!
Also regarding the 1st stages: how do these two compare to each other or to an Aqualung Legend 1st stage? Are they designed for cold diving (Netherlands during winter), and/or environmentally sealed / easy or cheap to service?
Regarding the octo and scubapro 2nd stage: How well would they serve in cold water diving? Are they worth servicing, or am I better off buying another legend, to ensure I have a set built for cold water?

Thanks for the help!
New on the forum. Not sure how to post a new thread so I thought I would try to reply to this one. I too have an old Scubapro regulator. I got this in Seattle in either 1970 or 1971 while I was attending University of Washington. It was used when I got it. There is a serial number (911234) but I don't see any other marks on the regulator. I used it shortly after I moved to Alaska in 1974, had it serviced with new seals, etc and then used it only a few times after that. Anyone know what it is or what it is worth? I'm interested in selling it. I'm in my early 80's and doubt I will ever do anymore scuba diving.
 

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From the 1971 Scubapro catalog, MK1 first stage with 109 adjustable second stage.
The 109 second stage was introduced in 1969. Based on the yoke screw and port plugs the MK1 is possibly from 1965-1967.
Yours looks to be in reasonably good condition and so I would put value in the $40-$70 range.
The first stage is more a collectors item than practical these days, the 109 adjustable is a classic and still used by some.
Scubapro 1971-cropped.jpg
 
Hi all,

Here are some close-ups of my Mk10. So is this or is this not the one where the SPEC boot fits?

I am considering using it for a deco stage for my upcoming Advanced Nitrox, decompression and tec light courses.
It is also to be used at deeper depths and cold water (up to 56m, temp down to 2-4 degree C. Obviously only for decompression stops 20m and up.

Is this combination suitable for this, or would it be safer to get a set designed and certified for cold water use?

View attachment 852955
Your MK10 would be an excellent stage regulator. I use MK5s for my stages, and they are very similar. The only thing about using the MK10 for deco is that if you are going to use high FO2 (above 40%) then you will need to remove all traces of silicone grease from the 1st stage and rebuild it with PTFE grease. You could also use viton o-rings for the HP section, that’s kind of the standard for O2 use, but if you don’t tell anybody, EPDM has better physical properties and only a somewhat lower ignition temp.

For a strictly O2 deco reg, the MK2 that you have is probably a better choice, at least theoretically. That’s because the HP section has fewer o-rings, a tiny seat (and you can get an O2 compatible seat from SP) and it’s just very easy to clean for O2 use. My O2 reg is a MK2- 108 2nd stage. I can’t think of any other combination that has less combustible material throughout. Not that it matters in the real world; good cleaning and good technique pretty much eliminates real-world problems with O2 handling.

The metal case “MKX” is a world class 2nd stage IMO, and ideal for stage/deco/O2 use.
 
[...]EPDM has better physical properties and only a somewhat lower ignition temp.[...]
This has been a view in the dive industry that has slowly changed over the last few decades. I would argue that EPDM is, if at all only marginally better than NBR for oxygen service. The reason is that it has a rather low auto-ignition temperature, only slightly better than NBR, occasionally worse. But at the same time, it develops a tremendous heat upon combustion. In fact, it develops one of the highest temperatures of any elastomer used in O-rings. This means its rather easy to ignite and then burns really really hot if it does.

NameAuto Ignition Temperature °CHeat Of Combustion J/gO2 Index %
EPDM150–20047,20025.5
Nylon 6/6 (polyamide)17832,20036
Zytel 42 (polyamide)19237,000
Buna-N (Nitrile rubber)17335,60022
Hydrocarbon Greases160–22033,500–41,90021
Polyurethane18121,800–27,20022
PEEK30532,50035
FKM (Viton)300–32512,600–20,90056–100
PTFE (Teflon)>4274,200–7,10095–100
Krytox (Perfluorinated lubricant)>4273,800–4,200DNI
From ASTM: STP 1522

Manufacturers went through a hype of using EPDM, but this has ebbed down in the last decades, as it became clear that EPDM is not at all suitable in high oxygen environments.

The real strength of EPDM lies in its resistance to the environment. It is very resistant to ozone and weathering conditions, which is why it is extensively used in roofing applications and finds its way onto the wiper blade of your car. But these characteristics are of no real interest for the SCUBA market. What is interesting for us is that EPDM is very resistant to abrasion and has a rather high resistance to tears, so it lends itself exceptionally well to dynamic O-rings.

1733503626312.png

Source: Parker O-ring Handbook (2007)

These two areas, abrasion resistance and tear resistance, are where it is superior to NBR. But for almost all applications in SCUBA, leaving a few dynamic or tiny O-rings under high pressure aside, NBR is sufficient. Unfortunately, EPDM is utterly misplaced in high oxygen environments. I believe the myth that it is well suited for high oxygen systems stems from the fact that the material is extensively used by Apeks. And a lot of tech divers use Apeks regulators and, of course, use plenty of high oxygen systems.

You will not make your system magically ignite by using EPDM O-rings instead of FKM O-rings. But what you are doing is adding something to the long chain of things that have to go wrong for an oxygen fire to start and sustain itself.

EPDM O-rings are completely fine for oxygen service, as long as nothing else goes wrong. Incidentally, so are NBR O-rings. But the bit about nothing else going wrong is the really important bit.

An oxygen fire is like a seesaw. For an oxygen fire to occur, several things need to go wrong. As long as I'm doing the right things, like maintaining a clean system, using oxygen-compatible lubricants, slowly opening valves, selecting proper O-ring materials, and so on, the system remains safe.
However, if I cut corners, such as using improper O-ring polymers, incompatible lubricants, a contaminated system, or quickly slamming open valves, the balance shifts. Each of these missteps adds a small weight to the "wrong" side of the seesaw.

The seesaw represents the balance between safety and risk. On one side, you have all the precautions and best practices (the "right" side), and on the other, you have the potential hazards (the "wrong" side). Initially, the "right" side is heavier, keeping the system safe. But with each improper action, a small weight is added to the "wrong" side. Individually, these weights may not be enough to tip the seesaw, but collectively, they can shift the balance. Eventually, if enough weights accumulate, the seesaw tips to the "wrong" side, and an oxygen fire can occur. And EPDM is squarely on the wrong side of this seesaw. Despite the ASTM source, I would even place it below NBR in oxygen compatibility, due to its high combustion energy.

In essence, no single misstep is solely responsible for the fire; it's always a combination of several factors that, when added together, create the tipping point. Using FKM for O-rings, for example, does not suddenly exempt me from adhering to best practices. Sure, FKM is more tolerant, but if I do enough other things wrong, it will happily ignite.
 

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