Ice Diving question (split from Ginnie Springs trip report in GLWC)

[bearbear]

Hi, this is not in reference to Ginney Springs (althought I read your review and it sounds great). I am actually hoping to pick your brain about N.A.U.I. ice diving course if you have taken it or know anything about it. I saw in your bio that you are N.A.U.I. certified and dive Great Lakes so I am taking a chance that you may know something about it. My brother and I are taking the course next month (if the ice cooperates). If you know and could give me a short description of how they tether divers, depth, entry, egress etc basically anything you know would be great. Thanks Mel.

 

[JEScholz]

I am NOT ice certified by any agency, but have been ice diving off and on for many years with the MUD club. These guys were diving under the ice long before I joined the club 20 years ago. I will share what I have learned and leave "certification" up to the agencies...

First off, we start with the ice conditions. The ice needs to be strong (notice I did not say thick) enough to support the weight of divers and support people plus equipment near the edges. You can not judge by thickness alone as we have found clear ice to be stronger than cloudy or honeycomb ice.

Next is the hole. We cut a large triangle so that we can push up out of the water in the "corners". By having the ice angle back you can get your hands beside or behind your body and push yourself out. If there is snow on top of the ice, we clear it away from the hole and will do a wheel and spoke pattern out away from the hole as a reference to be seen by the divers when they go below.

Gear is very important. Environmentally sealed regs that are designed for super cold water. I use a Sherwood Magnum Blizzard from the mid 80's as a primary and a Poseidon as my alternate. Redundant air source and independent regulators are a must. Some guys like full face and I have used that, but I prefer my normal set up. Dry suit is a must, but we do have a die hard who still will go in for short dives wet.

Buddy check of gear is a given, as well as a review of hand signals and rope signals before entering the water. Both divers are double checked and the BC is started filled before they hit the water. Usually we have a safety diver geared, roped and sitting on the third point of the triangle, ready to go.

We like to use a single line with a "Y" for both divers. We will double tie off on each diver in the chest area and feed the single line back up through the hole. We use a single line to avoid tangle and to keep the two divers together (about 15-20' end to end on the Y). The surface line tender will rotate around the hole to keep the rope running straight through the hole rather than let is bend back under where he is standing . We also secure the end of the line to a spike in the ice so there is little chance of the tender letting the end of the line pass through his hands. We also mark the line to know how much line is out.

I know I am not covering everything but this will give you an idea of what we do in the local lakes around here. Again, I an not an instructor or even ice "certified" but this has been my experience.

 

[Barracuda2]

I'm in the same situation as Betail. Not certified but have done many ice dives. If you went ice diving with experienced divers, you could learn everything you need to know in one day. Most of what you need to know is preparations for the dive, (type of ice, where to tether, what kind of tether to use,type of knots, type of hole, tether signals and how to give them,)and gear to use. Once under, there really are no special techniques; just being more alert to your buddy and where your tether line is going. If you have the opportunity to get formally trained, go for it, but at the moment, you don't have to be a card carrier to participate. I'm sure that day is coming though especially at commercial dive sites.

 

[Tortuga Viejo]

Betail you got the big picture right on, I might mention is that depending on the
gear being dove and its attachment points, some divers like to use a safety harness
to have their line attached to. Also many of us wear ice spuds when walking on the
ice and certainly the tender.

I also talk to my tender - I like to make sure he/she keeps the line snug enough to
follow my motions but not enough to be a drag. Having an experienced tender is the
only way to go!

Kudos to Tenders! Being a tender may seem like a thankless boreing job, but
that person holds YOUR life in there hands- would not be diving with out them!

Minor details include: make the holes visible to snow mobilers etc by using traffic
cone pylons (found while river diving in the summer, reseal the hole after use and
mark it. Have safety/ rescue gear (ropes, floats, john boat) on shore with shore
support in some one needs them.

Most important thing though is to have FUN!

 

[DOkie]

Both my husband and I are ice certified and maybe I'm butting into a conversation that wasn't meant for everyone, but here's my take on things.... (Just a couple of hints learned along the way).

1. The dive site is chosen.
2. Shovel off the dive site and the surrounding area.
3. We cut the hole in a triangle shape (I'll explain later).
4. We have a limit of 4 divers in the water with two suited divers on standby with two line tenders.
5. We keep a board along side of the dive site with the signals posted for everyone to see.
6. Entry into the water is a group effort. It seems easier if you sit down to put your BC on. Place yourself in the corner of the triangle and then you can use the corners to turn yourself around for entry. (Generally you'll have someone hanging onto your tank to make sure you don't bang it).
7. Backing up... DO NOT breathe on your regulator while out of the water. This ups your chances of a free flow. I don't even put mine in my mouth until I am under water.
8. We always teather on a "Y" system also. Individuals without steel "D" rings are required to wear a harness. It is important that you make the decision with your buddy who will respond to the signals (if both do, it can be confusing for the line tender).
9. MOST IMPORTANT!!! The instant brain freeze does go away!!!
10. When underwater and ascending, for the first couple of dives, place your arm up. Depth perception can be off and it hurts to crack your head on the ice. (Not that I've done that - grin).
11. Existing the water is very simple. Back yourself into the corner of the triangle and generally someone will grab your tank and assist while you push yourself up.
12. Pat yourself on the back... (grin)

Just a couple of other odd bits and pieces... Bring a couple of pairs of warm gloves/mittens. My husband uses a laminated note on his wrist during ice dives for the signals which he usually gives to new divers to use for responding to rope communication (it takes some stress out of the situation). Water proof boots (I know that sounds stupid, but we've had a lot of guys show up in ankle boots and the water on top of the ice is 8" deep). Try to keep your gear somewhat out of the wind prior to diving, and the most important lesson I have EVER learned ice diving is NEVER wear a mask with a purge. (It freezes open and 34 degree water shoots right up your nose - not that I've ever done that either - ha ha)

Hope you and your brother have a great time!! It is truly a beautiful experience.

 

[WaterWolf]

Don't forget the chili!

 

[bearbear]

Thanks very much to all of you for your input about the ice diving. I am still trying to get in the water. We went to the site on 03/08 and 03/09 but the dive instructor called the dive on account of wind/cold conditions. We will get it done this year (I hope). bearbear.

 

[bearbear]

Dokie thanks for the specifics about ice diving. Judging from your profile you are not afraid of getting wet, thats great. My brother and I hope to get N.A.U.I. certified before the end of this season but as I posted we missed our first chance on 8th and 9th due to weather conditions. I thought our dive instructor was being to conservative but he has the experience so we deferred to his advice and scrubbed the dives. I am P.A.D.I. aow but no one near by does ice certs for P.A.D.I. Again info much appreciated, safe diving, bearbear.

 

[DOkie]

Sorry to hear about your cancelled dive. I hear you guys are getting some really crappy weather there... Sometimes the wind can be a bigger problem than the cold. Honestly, ice diving is great, but it's REALLY great when it's 40+ degrees outside... Done it in 11 degrees and windy and it sucks. On the warmer days you can surpass the chilli and bring a grill. Now that's fun... Have a GREAT time!!!