I wanna do it all

[MXGratefulDiver]

Seeing the various pictures on the various diving Facebook groups I belong to, I keep thinking: I wanna do that.

Dive below 130 feet, dive in caves, dive in wrecks, the list goes on.

I have my AOW. I know I can do more certifications, but, I want to know; Is there something higher than AOW that covers caves and deeper, but does not force me to wear and use the exact same things as everyone else?

I am guessing that means going Tech, but I don't dive enough.

Fairly typical reactions for someone at your experience level who's enthusiastic about diving. There's plenty of options higher than AOW, but if you want to go into caves or go below recreational depths, chances are that unless you chose specific types of equipment, it's going to force you to purchase and learn how to use different types of gear. In caves, or below recreational depths, "everyone else" uses backplates, rebreathers, or sidemount rigs designed specifically for that type of diving. They require multiple regulators ... depending on how many bailout, deco and stage bottles their dive requires. And those regs need to be higher end regs, for both performance and reliability reasons.

If you "don't dive enough", then tech isn't for you ... one of the most important things about diving tech is to dive often enough to keep your skills current. There are no short-cuts to that kind of diving, if your objective is to stay alive.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but I have my own equipment that I like. I have gotten rid of some equipment I did not like. I think GUI require you own the exact same set up as everyone.

When I say "Deep", I mean well over 200 feet. Cave, I mean, those really long caves.

I think you're a bit misinformed ... GUE does require fairly specific configuration, but it's not functionally different than what every other tech agency out there will require. There are reasons why they require that type of equipment, and those reasons are well covered in the class. I've taken tech classes from several different agencies ... GUE, IANTD, NAUI and NSS-CDS ... and I did so in the same gear each time.

Also ... GUI means "graphic user interface" and has nothing to do with scuba diving ... GUE means "Global Underwater Explorers" and is just one of many agencies that can train you to go into caves or below 200 feet. If their program doesn't suit you, there are lots of alternatives to choose from. None of them are going to accept you into their tech program with gear that's not designed to handle multiple tanks, and accommodate the types of emergency skills that are required in overhead environments.

FWIW - tech diving is "cost is no object" diving ... if your desire is to go below 200 feet, start by getting used to the idea that you're going to be spending thou$and$ for training, more thou$and$ for equipment, and hundred$ just for the gas you'll breathe on a dive to those depths. That's irrespective of the agency you choose to get you there ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added December 14th, 2014 at 06:43 AM ----------

Commercial diving school will train you far better then every sport diving certification you can get put together and you will not be using the same equipment as sport divers. But once you are done with that training you will probably not be looking at your current objectives in the same way.

Commercial diving doesn't teach you much about scuba diving ... very different missions. There's no way a commercial school will train a diver to do certain types of tech dives ... caves, for example. They simply aren't equipped to deal with those environments. Our local commercial school (DIT) has a scuba diving component, as I'd guess they all do ... but it doesn't even pretend to train people to tech dive on scuba equipment. The one time I remember one of the DIT guys trying to go to 200 feet on scuba gear he ended up killing himself, because the idiot tried it in the same recreational equipment he trained it ... wetsuit, stab jacket, and a single AL80. He made it to 200 feet just fine ... he didn't even come close to making it back to the surface, though.

Those guys are trained to use surface supplied air ... the jack-ass didn't even have a clue how to manage his gas on scuba, except to "watch your gauge" ... and he watched it go all the way to zero, no doubt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[USFpsychDiver]

Some introductory level tech courses (e.g. Cavern) can be done in OW gear with minor modifications (e.g. changing some reg hose lengths). That's a much better way than watching some Facebook videos to see if the tech route is interesting enough to invest the time and money in to get the proper gear and training. The first steps don't have to be terribly expensive; BP/W and a pair of DIN regs, and used or quality but not 'big name' brands work fine. Lights and tanks and drysuits and a Petrel and all the classes which tend to run $400 - $1000 each can all come later.

 

[rongoodman]

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but I have my own equipment that I like. I have gotten rid of some equipment I did not like. I think GUI require you own the exact same set up as everyone.

That isn't the case, although there are requirements. GUE Fundies would be a strong base for whatever you want to do in the future, or take a trip to Mexico for a Cavern class.

 

[Rich Keller]

Commercial diving doesn't teach you much about scuba diving ... very different missions. There's no way a commercial school will train a diver to do certain types of tech dives ... caves, for example. They simply aren't equipped to deal with those environments. Our local commercial school (DIT) has a scuba diving component, as I'd guess they all do ... but it doesn't even pretend to train people to tech dive on scuba equipment. The one time I remember one of the DIT guys trying to go to 200 feet on scuba gear he ended up killing himself, because the idiot tried it in the same recreational equipment he trained it ... wetsuit, stab jacket, and a single AL80. He made it to 200 feet just fine ... he didn't even come close to making it back to the surface, though.

Those guys are trained to use surface supplied air ... the jack-ass didn't even have a clue how to manage his gas on scuba, except to "watch your gauge" ... and he watched it go all the way to zero, no doubt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That is what I meant when I said he might not be looking at his current objectives in the same way. He might not even consider a 200' dive on scuba or penetration diving on scuba after that type of training because the objectives are so different. If you go by OSHA regs for commercial divers he would not make either type of dive on scuba.

 

[rongoodman]

Right after I win the lottery.

It's hard to image what you would have to replace beyond the stab jacket, and maybe split fins. You're not going to be using them for those deep dives or long caves anyway, no matter which agency you end up with.

 

[bradells]

As for keeping costs down, in most diving circles/communities/clubs, there is a lot of extra gear around.

Most divers I've come across have no problems helping each other out with lending or selling off gear.

Some people have multiple setups just to facilitate people from out of town, or new people interested in the equipment to go diving.

Private instructors usually have a small collection of equipment as well.

All of my tanks have been come by that way. One of our team members in Fundies was outfitted entirely by others (regs, bpw, drysuit, fins, tanks). The only thing he owned (at that period of time) was his mask, and cotton undergarments (yes, he was wearing sweat suits). Heck, even I gave him some gear for the week prior and after the course (smb, spool, dive lights).

Tech/Cave divers seem scary for no apparent reason, but I generally find they are the most humble, helpful and fun divers out there.

And why wouldn't they be? They'd love to have more teammates for dives (just like any rec diver). They want safe buddies (just like any rec diver). They like having fun (just like any rec diver). And they like hanging out after a fun, safe dive (just like any rec diver).

BRad

 

[waterpirate]

The single most imortant thing in your journey is...... " At least I enjoyed the ride, and stayed safe ". All the rest of it is semantics. Go slow, and with good technique, you will enjoy the ride, where ever it takes you.
Hope this helps
Eric

 

[mk706]

Don't forget PSAI for tech (no comment on their cave training, I don't do caves).

Edd is the PSAI training director. You could say the do cave instruction. Very well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[shellmoundal]

I do not have the money available to replace my current gear. So, GUE is not where I will be at.

I am a certified cave diver. Don't want to be rude but read what I have to say.

To be a cave diver you have to (1) Be able to afford it. (2) Have the time

The equipment required for cave diving is totally different than OW. The only thing in common is a regulator and in a cave it must be redundant.

You sound like the type of diver that we call a "Cowboy". You must be the best of the best to be a cave diver. Every dive is a different experience no matter how many cave dives or times you have been in that particular cave.

In order to be a cave diver you must never be complacent. You must have PERFECT TRIM AND BOYANCY. Without that you are putting yourself and everyone else in the cave at risk.

Does not matter if you are GUE, NACD, TSI, NSS/CDS, NAUI,PSAI or whatever. All cave divers have almost identical equipment. If you can't afford a $1200.00 Primary Light, two $125.00 backup lights, 2 first stages and 2 second stages, 2 complete sets of diving tanks with hoses, Drysuit or Double Bladder Wing, Cave Fins, Primary Reel and 2 jump reels and a spool, 2 "Z" Knifes and a technical computer plus a back up. Also a mask and a spare one in your pocket. Add all that up ,around $8000.00 and then add your certifications: Cavern, Intro to Cave, Apprentice, and Full Cave. Not only is that very expensive but very time consuming. After each certification you will be required to dive at least 25 dives before moving to the next level. The instructors will expect you to be proficient in the level you completed before going to the next level.
Time and money is required by you to dive 25 or more dives in a cavern. Some places charge $40.00 to dive a day and that does not include your nitrox and transportation.
Get real, learn to dive first and then decide what your next step will be. If you decide to be a cave diver you will read your post and laugh at it. Safety is everything in cave diving and that is the reason that I have gone to all this trouble to keep you out of a cave until you are trained. I don't want to be the diver that pulls your body out of the cave.
I feel your
passion and I love it. Go slow and learn to be the best of the best. I am far from that but on every dive I try to improve on the next one. I make a mental note of all my small mistakes of the dive and improve the next one.
Dive safe.

 

[swimmer_spe]

I am a certified cave diver. Don't want to be rude but read what I have to say.

To be a cave diver you have to (1) Be able to afford it. (2) Have the time

The equipment required for cave diving is totally different than OW. The only thing in common is a regulator and in a cave it must be redundant.

You sound like the type of diver that we call a "Cowboy". You must be the best of the best to be a cave diver. Every dive is a different experience no matter how many cave dives or times you have been in that particular cave.

In order to be a cave diver you must never be complacent. You must have PERFECT TRIM AND BOYANCY. Without that you are putting yourself and everyone else in the cave at risk.

Does not matter if you are GUE, NACD, TSI, NSS/CDS, NAUI,PSAI or whatever. All cave divers have almost identical equipment. If you can't afford a $1200.00 Primary Light, two $125.00 backup lights, 2 first stages and 2 second stages, 2 complete sets of diving tanks with hoses, Drysuit or Double Bladder Wing, Cave Fins, Primary Reel and 2 jump reels and a spool, 2 "Z" Knifes and a technical computer plus a back up. Also a mask and a spare one in your pocket. Add all that up ,around $8000.00 and then add your certifications: Cavern, Intro to Cave, Apprentice, and Full Cave. Not only is that very expensive but very time consuming. After each certification you will be required to dive at least 25 dives before moving to the next level. The instructors will expect you to be proficient in the level you completed before going to the next level.
Time and money is required by you to dive 25 or more dives in a cavern. Some places charge $40.00 to dive a day and that does not include your nitrox and transportation.
Get real, learn to dive first and then decide what your next step will be. If you decide to be a cave diver you will read your post and laugh at it. Safety is everything in cave diving and that is the reason that I have gone to all this trouble to keep you out of a cave until you are trained. I don't want to be the diver that pulls your body out of the cave.
I feel your
passion and I love it. Go slow and learn to be the best of the best. I am far from that but on every dive I try to improve on the next one. I make a mental note of all my small mistakes of the dive and improve the next one.
Dive safe.

Although I do not agree with your label of me, I appreciate your post.

At the rate I am going, assuming there is only the 4 stages of training, that is 100 dives. For me to reach 100 dives, I am guessing that is about 5-10 years. That is not that bad.

$8k for gear? over 10 years is not that bad either.

I did not know anything about what really is involved in cave diving or deep diving.

In such a short time, these 4 pages have helped me understand what it will take if I decide to go that route. Anything I do, I do not want to cut corners. I want to be safe. I have learned that the most expensive thing is not always the best. I have learned that sometimes the difference between anything depends purely on what you intend to do.

I intend to dive safely, exploring what is below the surface.