I take underwater artifacts...

[Aquaviolator]

In the late 1700's all Pirates were required to properly label theyre anchors with the name of the ship! This was done so it could be returned to its rightful owner...

Maybe he collects seashells?

 

[vladimir]

yes I have artifacts and no I don't care about other people and I found them so I have a right to keep them... much the same way if you find something in the trash it's fair game. I.e. police don't need a search warrant to go through trash you've left out in barrels on the street.

In much the same way I am finding other people's trash and making it part of a fascinating collection.

The reason police don't need a warrant to search your trash is because the Supreme Court decided you have "no reasonable expectation of privacy" for the items in your trash cans.

You are probably correct in your assumption that when you willingly abandon your property to a trash can, you generally cede ownership. However,

in Texas, for example, the courts have found that depositing trash in a garbage bin does not constitute abandonment, per se, but rather the transfer of property from the owner to a waste-hauling firm.

No doubt you are also correct in assuming that these artifacts were from a pirate vessel, in which case they were not intentionally abandoned. You may be entitled to a percentage of their value as salvor, based on the risk you took to salvage them, among other things. (Perhaps you can increase your salvage fee by doing these dives as unsafely as possible. Just a thought.)

Even if they are from non-pirate vessels (admittedly a far-fetched scenario, but stick with me) they might be subject to the Abandoned Shipwreck Act of 1987.

The Act provides that the United States has title to all abandoned shipwrecks found in U. S. waters within the 3-mile limit; however, the U. S. Government then passes title to the state in whose waters the shipwreck was located. If the shipwreck is outside of the territorial waters, then the general admiralty law applies.

In order for someone to recover as a finder, and for ownership to transfer, she must prove that the shipwreck has been intentionally and positively abandoned by its original owners. If it has not been abandoned by its original owners, then the person recovering either the vessel or its contents would be treated as a salvor and would be entitled to a portion of the value retained.

The United States has taken the position, and it is generally accepted in maritime law, that a sovereign government never abandons its vessels or aircraft. Thus, whenever a military wreck is discovered, whether it be a vessel or a plane, the United States still asserts its ownership interest. However, in a recent Federal Court case involving salvage rights to a submerged World War II Navy plane allegedly in 500 feet of water less than one mile off the coast of Miami the court rejected the Navy's claim and sided with the private salvor. This was an important case for those interested in salvaging the many scattered World War II Navy planes on the bottoms of Lake Michigan and Lake Washington.

Note that for wrecks outside the 3-mile limit, "general admiralty law applies." In other words, finders keepers.

That is my dime-store legal Wiki-analysis. Slightly better than yours, I hope, but hardly definitive.

 

[OceanMist333]

AquaViolator: IF, and i emphasize IF, that is true.. pirate anchors are made of iron, which after 300 years of being exposed to the marine environment will no longer look the way they originally did upon entering the water. Also, who's to say all pirate's followed suit? Stupid post.

Vladimir: you're dime-store legal Wiki-analysis is just that... moronic and uninformed. In one post you just managed to quote the "reasonable expectation of privacy" according by the highest ruling court in the US while quoting the most *** backwards state in the country, Texas. In case you never paid attention in history class: federal law supercedes state law. The state's can, in theory, pass any law they wish. However, if it violated a Supreme Court ruling they would lose federal funding and thus being these economic times, well, would end up like the state of California.

As far as the abandoned shipwreck act of 1987: First, I honestly don't care. Second, I'm not attempting to surface a WWII plane and sell it to my local Applebee's. Rather, I am taking a few choice items that are small enough to bring up by hand. I don't use lift bags. For example, coins, buttons, bottles, cannonballs, dinner plates, etc.

If my state court honestly wants to apply the Abandoned Shipwreck Act of 1987 over removing a cannonball from the bay, then I say things must be pretty boring at the state house and it would make one heck of a news story. The Providence Journal is among the most liberal in the country and equally the most horrible, but I'm sure they'd even support me.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Bottom line is be careful.

There in fact are folks watching forums for violations of laws protecting shipwrecks.

A rather notorious case occurred right up by you about 4-5 years ago, where photos were posted online of items removed from a wreck. The state investigated (one group of divers was angered by and informed the authorities about another group of divers,) charges were filed, property was seized, and ultimately federal laws were changed to alter the status of foreign ships of war in US coastal waters.

I'm too busy to go google the entire thing again to provide you with details, however, you are free to do so yourself. In fact, details exist both on this board in the archives as well as on The Deco Stop - where significant amounts of whining and finger pointing posts from both groups appeared in numerous threads. Use the keyword "USS Murphy". It was a bitter fight and court battle, and no one came out a winner - including, most emphatically, wreck divers.

Here is an additional article from Mike Barnette who is on this board as AUEMike:
http://uwex.us/lostatsea.htm

Few will raise eyebrows at buttons or dinnerplates, however, be advised that removing items from any ship of war, from any country in the world, is now a violation of federal law. And they now to monitor online forums (and other discussions) to identify offenders.

Whether you believe it, or think its 'right', or not.

Best,

Doc

 

[vladimir]

AquaViolator: IF, and i emphasize IF, that is true.. pirate anchors are made of iron, which after 300 years of being exposed to the marine environment will no longer look the way they originally did upon entering the water. Also, who's to say all pirate's followed suit? Stupid post.

Vladimir: you're dime-store legal Wiki-analysis is just that... moronic and uninformed. In one post you just managed to quote the "reasonable expectation of privacy" according by the highest ruling court in the US while quoting the most *** backwards state in the country, Texas. In case you never paid attention in history class: federal law supercedes state law. The state's can, in theory, pass any law they wish. However, if it violated a Supreme Court ruling they would lose federal funding and thus being these economic times, well, would end up like the state of California.

You didn't understand my post. Not surprising. I think it was stupid of me to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were here to have an adult conversation. My mistake; it won't happen again.

 

[Dale M]

Now he's looking to put a compressor on a 65' boat he's wanting to buy. I say to each his own.

 

[SteveAD]

Now he's looking to put a compressor on a 65' boat he's wanting to buy. I say to each his own.

Probably because he's been blacklisted from every dive shop and charter boat in his area because of his attitude.

 

[Teamcasa]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

..please refrain from the name calling...

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[OceanMist333]

Dale is that a Bayliner?

 

[Dale M]

No, Rinker 270 Fiesta Vee.