I need your opinion

[MB NZ]

It does somewhat depend on the role of the guide. Are they there to hold your hand or show you the sights or both? I've been told quite clearly by some guides that they are just that, a tour guide, not a babysitter. I think this should be established in each new situation. Regardless, everyone has a role in helping a diver in distress.

 

[Klopo]

Firstly, very well done for performing a "rescue". Classic panic and you handled it very well for someone with only 10 dives. By your description, she appeared to be in a bad way and you may have saved her life.


The first rule of rescue is there shouldn't be two casualties. You should do what you can, but not if it could harm yourself. Had you backed away when she knocked your mask off that seemed perfectly reasonable that you could have been hurt.


Seems the guide was as much use as diving with an accordion.


Well done for doing what you did.

I see your point with the casualties. My instructor told me that also at my owd but in that moment i didnt think of that somehow. It all went well so im fine with that.

 

[boulderjohn]

It does somewhat depend on the role of the guide. Are they there to hold your hand or show you the sights or both? I've been told quite clearly by some guides that they are just that, a tour guide, not a babysitter.

I have seen more than a few threads on this topic over the years with people saying that dive guides have no responsibility for their safety. The people writing this have always been non-professionals reporting their beliefs. In those threads I have seen several divemasters and dive shop operators write that in their experience, the dive guides are absolutely, positively expected to provide that assistance.

Then there is the question of what would happen in the courts. As an instructor, I was very clearly told that if I was in any way acting as a professional such that a diver believed he or she could depend on me, I could be held liable in an accident. This would obviously be true if I were accepting payment, but I was clearly told that if I even said something that implied that the diver could depend on me because of my status, I could be liable.

 

[Degenerate]

Then there is the question of what would happen in the courts. As an instructor, I was very clearly told that if I was in any way acting as a professional such that a diver believed he or she could depend on me, I could be held liable in an accident. This would obviously be true if I were accepting payment, but I was clearly told that if I even said something that implied that the diver could depend on me because of my status, I could be liable.

I'm assuming the above will depend a lot on the location and local laws, no?
A divemaster who is just guiding a dive for others would in no way be held accountable where I'm at but I'll bet that would be the case in the US.
A dive guide would have no more liability than a random buddy, which is pretty much no liability at all here.

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

Are you responsible for attempting to help your buddy? I would say yes [...]

Agree. Is that not the basic rational behind the buddy system?

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm assuming the above will depend a lot on the location and local laws, no?
A divemaster who is just guiding a dive for others would in no way be held accountable where I'm at but I'll bet that would be the case in the US.
A dive guide would have no more liability than a random buddy, which is pretty much no liability at all here.

So are you an attorney? Can people in your area rely on your legal advice?

 

[Klopo]

I have seen more than a few threads on this topic over the years with people saying that dive guides have no responsibility for their safety. The people writing this have always been non-professionals reporting their beliefs. In those threads I have seen several divemasters and dive shop operators write that in their experience, the dive guides are absolutely, positively expected to provide that assistance.

Then there is the question of what would happen in the courts. As an instructor, I was very clearly told that if I was in any way acting as a professional such that a diver believed he or she could depend on me, I could be held liable in an accident. This would obviously be true if I were accepting payment, but I was clearly told that if I even said something that implied that the diver could depend on me because of my status, I could be liable.

Hmm never tought of the "law" perspectiv in this whole thing ...

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

You don't have to. Thinking of the law perspective will cause you a lot of headaches but will not result in becomming a better diver. Unless you want to study all the Law system from the countries you will be diving.
The ethical aspect is the one that count. Just my opinion.

 

[Outbound]

OP, great job in doing what you did, especially for someone as inexperienced as you are! One thing to point out - as you now know firsthand - is that you always need to be cautious and ready to move away when approaching a panicked diver, as they can and will lunge at you, grab you, etc. The idea is to get behind them and control them from the rear so they can't grab at you. This is what you will learn in Rescue Diver courses, and I encourage all divers to take that class.

As for the issue of responsibility, you did all that was expected of you (and more!) while the DM did nothing that was expected of him. That's pretty shameful in my opinion. Things could have gotten a LOT worse if you hadn't acted when you did and as you did. Even if the guide thought you had things under control, he should have immediately stepped up and taken over the situation. I've been on guided dives where someone in our group started to get mildly anxious over the conditions and where I've simply held their hand to help calm them down. Even then, the guide has come to us and taken over hand-holding duty. Why? Mostly because I'm a paying customer and it's not my job, while they understood that they were the dive pro in that situation and it was indeed their job.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Are you responsible to help an insta-buddy descending to 50m? Honestly, it really depends on the circumstances, and there is no hard and fast answers, given so many different circumstances.

In this case, I dont think there is a correct response you can apply. You had your gear knocked off by the out of control buddy, IMO you would have been entirely justified in taking the "I wont become a 2nd casualty" approach. At the same time, it appears that you rescued your buddy without actually harming your own safety. Both conflicting answers to this issue can be true. (And I wont even mention if this had occurred in Malta).

As someone with only 10 dives, I would have recommended getting the guide to address the situation -- which is actually what you did, but in this case, the guide was completely useless. These are all changing circumstances that go into the answer to your question, such that there cannot be a clear answer.

Ultimately, you probably saved the life of a complete stranger. So no matter what, you should be applauded for your intentions and your execution, esp considering you only had 10 dives. IMO, you went above and beyond your responsibilities. I hope I would have done the same.

You should have been comped for that dive too!