How would you have helped this guy?

[Blackfish]

I'd like to echo scubafool's sentiments. You went way above and beyond to go diving with a new diver and to show him the local sights. That the dive went poorly wasn't your fault and it is probably better that the dive ended in shallow water, rather than an uncontrolled ascent from deeper or any one of a number of other accidents. Pointing him in the direction of a refresher course was the perfect course of action.

Nice work.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

I'm curious. How many people learned fin pivots in their OW class? I certainly didn't. I can't say for certain they didn't teach it to other students as I had a semi-private pool session and the vis was bad enough in the quary that I could not see the instructor working with other students (a couple of DMs were left with those not performing skills). Perhaps I wasn't taught this because I wasn't having problems with buoyancy.

On a side note I wanted to run this idea by some of my fellow scubaboarders. I was fine with buoyancy in relatively warm waters and a thinner wetsuit but I am having difficulties with a 7mm farmers john. I understand the reason you have more bouyancy problems with a 7mm farmers john is because of the additional air in the suit insulation. Could I simulate this by overweighting in a pool requiring additional air in the BC? I'd like to get some work in with my buoyancy in a nice easily controlled environment but would prefer not wearing a 7mm farmers john in a pool any longer than absolutely neccessary. Thoughts?

 

[WPBdiver]

I don't believe that anyone is saying that this diver needs to "stay" with an instructor or DM, they're saying he needs more time with one. Also, as divers, we ALL should be dependent.

Dependent on our peers to share their experience. Dependent on our insturctors that they will "finish the job" of training new divers instead of handing out signatures and certs. And most importantly, dependent on our dive buddies to be there in case a problem comes up.

I don't know about other divers on this board since I just got here but I for one have no interest in diving with an "Independent Diver". They can be a danger to themselves and other members of the group.

I agree with your first point that some new divers need a little more time with an instructor or DM. Not everyone is a natural at this sport. Actually very few are. Including me, when I started.

But I disagree entirely with your idea that we need to be so dependent on others. All divers, no matter what their training, should aspire to be dependent on only themselves. Your buddy may not be there when you need him/her the most or your buddy could panic and make matters worse for both of you. I do not advocate abandoning the buddy system, but I do think that each buddy should be self-reliant. Don't get me wrong, I have asked for my buddy's help with the occasional tank slip, and have helped plenty of buddies with minor and major problems (including assisting in the rescue of a diver in full panic at 126 FSW).

I recommend reading the book Solo Diving by Robert Von Maier, even if you are not interested in solo diving. The book stresses underwater self-sufficiency. A properly trained and equiped solo diver is not a hazard to himself or others and, on the contrary, is better prepared to handle any emergency. "Solo" is also not synonymous with "anti-social".

 

[cummings66]

I had to show the fin pivot as part of my Padi OW class and I had to show it later on as well during my advanced class. I never really saw the point of it because you can do that and still have lousy control.

I've told my local shop I'll dive with anybody regardless of their skill levels or air consumption. I said that I like to dive and just getting wet is great and if I help another diver get in a dive then that's good for both of us.

I have fun and meet new friends this way.

 

[Divmstr223]

I love diving with new divers....cuz they always look to me for advice and I love to give it. Whatever I can do to help someone else out makes me feel good and gives me a chance to give back what's been given to me. I've been fortunate to dive with some very experienced and laid back divers, it certainly rubs off. Sometimes, it's just a case of people not cut out to be divers. I'm sure the guy we are talking about will get the skill necessary and be just fine, but I have come across many students in my time that #1 can't swim when starting the class and #2 Panic just being in the water. Some turn out just fine with the proper training, and some can't overcome their fears in the water and drop out. This sport certainly isn't for everyone, but giving someone your advice or a little of your time to help them out certainly could make the difference for them....

 

[TSandM]

I actually did my first non-instructed dive with a buddy I met through the same e-group, so I felt very motivated to give back.

I do think a lot of the problem here was maldistributed weight. He was diving a jacket BC with 30 lbs in the weight pockets, which he said was what he needed for a 7 mil wetsuit. I don't dive a wetsuit, so I couldn't dispute that. I think he was seriously out of trim, and probably overweighted to boot. But, given his gear, there weren't a lot of options for changing things around. I did put his tank as high as it would reasonably go.

I chose a very conservative dive site on purpose -- the deepest you can get, at high tide, in this site is about 40 feet. We dropped in 15 feet of water, which probably didn't make it any easier on him, but kept both of us safe with multiple descents and ascents.

I really love to teach things . . . I taught medicine, I've taught riding, and I'm really looking forward to passing along some of the incredible energy and time that people have put into mentoring me diving. But clearly, my mentoring skills could use some polish!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think you went beyond the call of duty. Brand new divers really need to dive with charters that include in-water DMs, or hire one.

Don, just so you know ... charters in our area don't come with in-water DM's. The boat comes with captain (who drives), and crew (who gives a dive briefing, helps you into your gear, and tells you to have a nice dive). That's it. There are DM's that one could hire to take them diving ... but it's the rare person who does.

In these parts, a person that lacking in skills shouldn't be diving off of a boat ... they could seriously hurt themselves.

You are correct that TSandM went beyond the call ... she will make a great mentor, because she has an aptitude for teaching and a willingness to help out less experienced divers. In this case, I think she did the right thing ... there's only so much even an instructor could do under those circumstances. This is what comes from "learning" to dive in a warm-water quickie course ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Darnold9999]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "fin pivot" and I suppose why would you need one?

 

[TSandM]

A fin pivot is where you lie on your stomach on the bottom, and add air to your BC until a breath in brings your chest up off the bottom, and a breath out drops you back down. You pivot on the tips of your fins, which is where the name comes from. It is a way to seek neutral buoyancy. It is a required skill in PADI courses.

 

[Darnold9999]

Thank you, never been asked to do it, but certified in the dark ages and pretty obviously in control of boyancy when doing a check out dive so unlikely to be asked.

Read it in a bunch of posts, now I know.