How useful is AOW for Cozumel?

[deepsea21]

It would be irresponsible to take someone with AOW with just 40 dives down to the Pinnacles of Saba down to 130' .

This is one of the dilemmas dive operators are going to face and are most likely already facing. There are going to be divers who are newly certified under PADI (or another certification agency) that believe because they have paid for and achieved these certifications they are entitled to dive the "Advanced" and "Experienced" sites that a dive op may offer.

A dive op that is PADI affiliated is going to run into problems telling the irresponsible parents of a 12 year old who holds a "MASTER DIVER" cert with 50 dives logged that they can't dive one of their "Experienced" diver sites (and this goes for more than 12 year olds and perhaps their parents).

PADI selling higher and higher certifications is like selling faster and faster cars to people who can afford them... Just because you can buy it, doesn't mean you can drive it. After years of diving I'm still learning from other divers who have more experience than I have and at the same time I'm sharing what I have learned with divers with less experience. It is a never ending learning experience for as long as one is able to dive. True "Experience" costs $... Lets say you have 500 dives logged on Coz = 250, 2 tank trips at lets say an average of $80 each over the years = $20,000 spent. That's a lot more than PADI will charge one be classified as "MASTER DIVER" who has 50 dives logged.

It all comes back to this current age of "entitlement"... People think, "I've paid for my cert and I can do everything I'm entitled to do under it". Well, rest assured, I, my wife, and everyone else on that boat won't be chasing after your ass into the depths if something goes wrong so your dive buddies be they parents, a spouse, or your kids better be willing to go after ya and understand the consequences of doing so because that is how 1 dead diver turns into 2, 3 or 4.

 

[NDL_Diver]

Most dive shops will (should) vet you before they take you someplace very advanced. There is a difference between diving at 90' with a 100' bottom and diving 90' with a 300' bottom.

 

[scrane]

If you look like you know how to dive you can get away with not having AOW.

 

[mediumone]

Officially it's a recommendation not to exceed 60'. Some people treat it as a rule.

You are right.
It is most certainly NOT a rule.
It is a common misperception/misunderstanding.
The debate drives me crazy.

 

[ChuckP]

A dive op that is PADI affiliated is going to run into problems telling the irresponsible parents of a 12 year old who holds a "MASTER DIVER" cert with 50 dives logged that they can't dive one of their "Experienced" diver sites (and this goes for more than 12 year olds and perhaps their parents).

One thing is per PADI in regards to open water training dives for kids 12-14, we limit their depth to 70' so a 12 year old shouldn't be at the top of the wall at Maricaibo. My son is a mature big 12 year old, 70' is his max, he knows it and adheres to it, we dive sites or ways that work with that - you can dive every day here at 70'.

Any class you want to take, look at what you'll get out of it, how will it better you? SSI, I think has a better AOW program than PADI in that you have to complete 4 specialties and many dives, not just one dive of each but.......

PADI AOW I think is great for the 20-40 dive diver, you've had some time to work on your own but you haven't really got ingrained bad habits yet, you can still gain a lot by working with an instructor, for a pretty cheap net cost.

I see a few shops here are in the $400 range for AOW, looks like 4 boat dives and one shore dive, includes gear rental and tanks. A day of diving is 80-90, a private DM is 50/day, gear rental is 20-25/day - so a value of about 300 plus the shore dive....... Another shop is considerably more but, trying to be neutral here, their course director wants the instructors to spend much more time with the students going over skills verses the standard AOW class.

For the new diver, I think there's a big benefit in AOW - the class literally doubles the number of dives conducted under an instructors guidance if you've only taken OW and the added cost over just diving on your own is really minimal. Stop looking at the course cost only, compare it to the dive, private DM and equipment cost.

Sure, shops will look at an AOW card and 25 dives differently than a diver with 500 dives and only an OW card, the AOW card should merely crack the door open, you still need to show the skills - I think the skills come sooner with a solid base of instructor training verses watching others and maybe listening to hearsay on a boat.

 

[Ben_3]

1 year ago in Cozumel I was asked proof of the advanced level to be allowed to book a night dive. I might be mistaken but I think OW can now do night dives..

You can dive plenty in coz with open water cert. So no worries. It’s a nice place to do your AOW if you have the time though.

 

[mediumone]

One thing is per PADI in regards to open water training dives for kids 12-14, we limit their depth to 70' so a 12 year old shouldn't be at the top of the wall at Maricaibo. My son is a mature big 12 year old, 70' is his max, he knows it and adheres to it, we dive sites or ways that work with that - you can dive every day here at 70'.

That was not the case when my kids were certified in 2007.
At that time there were no different depth restrictions for Jr OW divers, OW divers or AOW divers.
Jr OW divers had to be accompanied by a parent or DM to exceed 60' No other restrictions.

Glad of it too. My kids fine tuned their buoyancy control when they were 12 and 13, (around their 10th - 12th dives), when a wonderful DM took us down to 90' and did Palancar Bricks wonderful bunch of swim throughs.

Last time I looked at PADI's site, I don't recall seeing any mention of different restrictions - but that's hardly surprising, as the site has become nothing more than a 60 second commercial.

 

[loudives]

Back in 1974 Padi had a Basic Diver cert. 60' max. I dove many places in US and a few in Caribbean and violated that a few times. Not until 1995 in Cayman was I questioned about it because the clerk in the shop had never seen that card before. Was allowed to dive and after the first dive was approved by divemaster to dive with the regular group up to 100'. Finally in Coz 1995 I took the Open Water course and have not upgraded. Sometimes my dive op has to put me with some other op and because I've been around many ops they all know my skills so they have no problem with me if the group is going to Advanced sites.

Again it is not the cert you have but how you handle yourself. I have seen many a diver with Advanced certs that in no way would want to buddy up with. I would rather dive solo than buddy up with them.

No big deal to do your first dive shallow to show the divemaster your skills. In Coz most first dives are 80' max anyway followed by a 50' max dive. The fact that the water is clear and the divemaster can see 50+ feet lets them stretch the 60' to 80. I go to Coz 2-3 times a year and have only gone to 92' twice in the last 30 dives.

 

[mediumone]

Back in 1974 Padi had a Basic Diver cert. 60' max. I dove many places in US and a few in Caribbean and violated that a few times. Not until 1995 in Cayman was I questioned about it because the clerk in the shop had never seen that card before. Was allowed to dive and after the first dive was approved by divemaster to dive with the regular group up to 100'. Finally in Coz 1995 I took the Open Water course and have not upgraded. Sometimes my dive op has to put me with some other op and because I've been around many ops they all know my skills so they have no problem with me if the group is going to Advanced sites.

Again it is not the cert you have but how you handle yourself. I have seen many a diver with Advanced certs that in no way would want to buddy up with. I would rather dive solo than buddy up with them.

No big deal to do your first dive shallow to show the divemaster your skills. In Coz most first dives are 80' max anyway followed by a 50' max dive. The fact that the water is clear and the divemaster can see 50+ feet lets them stretch the 60' to 80. I go to Coz 2-3 times a year and have only gone to 92' twice in the last 30 dives.

Got mine in about 1976.
Think I still have it rat-holed away somewhere. If I want proof that I'm not exempt from the aging process, I'll find it.

You should go deeper more often. Good to get good and narc'd now and then.

 

[MargaritaMike]

It all comes back to this current age of "entitlement"... People think, "I've paid for my cert and I can do everything I'm entitled to do under it". Well, rest assured, I, my wife, and everyone else on that boat won't be chasing after your ass into the depths if something goes wrong so your dive buddies be they parents, a spouse, or your kids better be willing to go after ya and understand the consequences of doing so because that is how 1 dead diver turns into 2, 3 or 4.

I think this statement is somewhat irresponsible. I am not an expert but I have observed a couple of things in Cozumel. I have seen new OW divers go on deeper than 60' with supposedly experienced buddies. The max depth on Santa Rosa Wall was 80'. Their buddy went looking at fish and I observed the OW diver descending deeper and deeper. I was at 121' when I caught up with them and stopped their descent. So yes, if I see someone going crazy I go chasing after their ass the best that I can and if you have so much experience you should too. You don't have to kill yourself, but you should try. The second point is that if I'm on a boat with an OW diver with only 20 dives I'm pretty sure that I won't be going to any advanced dive sites. I've seen it happen too many times.

Cheers - M²