How to survive a heart attack underwater?

[JPG]

I'd just like to know how it is that the good Silesian doctor can tell you whether or not you're actually having an MI in the first place unless someone nearby just happened to have an expensive, functioning AED around to accurately diagnose your funky rhythm. The symptoms of "heart attack" can be signs and symptoms of plenty of other ailments and may not be a heart attack at all. My advise: stick to the rescue/first responder basics of ABC's (airway, breathing, circulation), get professional assistance as soon as can be obtained, and if you want to give an aspirin (or 4 baby ASA instead) go ahead and give it/them, but only if the patient can advise you about any allergies he/she might have before doing so and appears to have a functioning swallow reflex. (Remember......first, do no harm.)

There are so many things wrong with the scenario of saving yourself/ someone from an underwater heart attack that we could punch holes all night. It's so fun that we just may choose to do that too .

 

[liberato]

I can't comment on the medical efficacy of the cough CPR technique but I tried it and it induced a serious case of hiccups. Not sure if that feature will ever come in handy...

Here is the Urban Legend page mentioned earlier: Cough Dropped

 

[babar]

the only thing I can think of would be in a 'heart attack', a common side effect or complication might be cngestive heart failure, or CHF. CHF is when the heart is unable to pump effectively, and ultimately blood backs up into the lungs. The 'cough technique' may be a way of increasing the pressure in the lungs to try and force the fluid back into circulation. I don't think I'd recommend this technique instead of calling for help or taking aspirin. It certainly will not help with the clot that caused the heart attack in the first place. But that's the rational I can think of for sugesting this.

Babar

 

[MookieMoose]

I came across the following on the internet. Unfortunately, as with many such things, it was attributed merely to a "prominent cardiologist" without identifying said doctor.

Turns out there really is a doctor involved with this: Dr. Tadeusz Petelenz of the Silesian Medical Academy in Katowice Province of Poland. However his work, while interesting, is controversial. And he may or may not be a cardiologist. Here is the gist of his procedure:

HOW TO SURVIVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN ALONE -
Since many people are alone when they suffer a heart attack, without help, the person whose heart is beating improperly and who begins to feel faint, has only about 10 seconds left before losing consciousness. However, these victims can help themselves by coughing repeatedly and very vigorously. A deep breath should be taken before each cough, and the cough must be deep and prolonged, as when producing sputum from deep inside the chest. A breath and a cough must be repeated about every two seconds without let-up until help arrives, or until the heart is felt to be beating normally again. Deep breaths get oxygen into the lungs and coughing movements squeeze the heart and keep the blood circulating. The squeezing pressure on the heart also helps it regain normal rhythm. In this way, heart attack victims can get to a hospital.

There is some controversy surrounding this. The article at snopes.com suggests coughing could kill unless the victim is about to pass out. It suggests that in most times the best approach is chewing an aspirin while waiting quietly for an ambulance to arrive.

Since Aspirin gets all soggy underwater, I'm curious to hear from some diving doctors. Could this 'cough CPR' be a valid self-rescue technique while ascending for help?

I just finished a Master's degree working on CPR research -cough CPR actually does work, but not for very long. If there is something wrong enough with your heart that it is not able to pump enough blood to keep you conscious, the effort required for cough CPR can't be sustained for long. The little bit of work I did with cough CPR suggested that it might be enough to allow a preson driving a car to safely get to the side of the road before passing out, but probably not much more.

I don't think this would work very well underwater - the first time you got a little water in your second stage you would probably choke, and now you have to come up with a self-rescue technighe for your heart attack, and one for choking/glottal spasm.

Cam

 

[Brian1968]

Cough CPR does have its merits...in monitored situations, in a relatively controlled environment, and basically just long enough to grab the defibrillator and shock the patient. There's absolutely no way a person in that situation should be driving. It's not used with the onset of chest pains but rather in the event that the heart has gone in to a malignant rhythm and the patient is still concious.

 

[MookieMoose]

Cough CPR does have its merits...in monitored situations, in a relatively controlled environment, and basically just long enough to grab the defibrillator and shock the patient. There's absolutely no way a person in that situation should be driving. It's not used with the onset of chest pains but rather in the event that the heart has gone in to a malignant rhythm and the patient is still concious.

I wasn't suggesting that someone with a known arrhythmia which could lead to cardiac arrest should be driving. I was simply trying to say that if someone were to experience cardica arrest, and recognize it's onset, cough CPR might be enough for them to pull over safely, but not much more in such an uncontrolled setting. It's use in hospital is an entirely different story. We used to use cough CPR in the EP cath lab if patients crashed during ablations, etc.

I think that the original poster's question was basically 'Would cough CPR help you survive an arrest while diving?' and I think that the answer is 'No, but it is a valid technique for other settings (ie. not science-fiction)'.

Cam

 

[Brian1968]

I wasn't suggesting that someone with a known arrhythmia which could lead to cardiac arrest should be driving. I was simply trying to say that if someone were to experience cardica arrest, and recognize it's onset, cough CPR might be enough for them to pull over safely, but not much more in such an uncontrolled setting. It's use in hospital is an entirely different story. We used to use cough CPR in the EP cath lab if patients crashed during ablations, etc.

I think that the original poster's question was basically 'Would cough CPR help you survive an arrest while diving?' and I think that the answer is 'No, but it is a valid technique for other settings (ie. not science-fiction)'.

Cam

That sums it up very well. Well said, Cam.

 

[derwoodwithasherwood]

I think that the original poster's question was basically 'Would cough CPR help you survive an arrest while diving?' and I think that the answer is 'No, but it is a valid technique for other settings (ie. not science-fiction)'.

Yup, that sums up the question rather nicely. I guess I'll just
have to source some waterproof aspirin in case of emergency.

Or maybe a submersible SAED... :rofl: