How to post HD vids on Net?

[wags]

Hi
I thought I would share this with you guys.

As some of you know Macromedia (Adobe now) uses a codec called On2Vp6 for their Flash (flv) video. The company that made the codec, On2 has out a new version called On2 VP7 and I believe Macromedia (Adobe) have the rights to use it as well.
You need to go to the On2 site and download their free Vp7 codec.
VP7 Personal Edition

Once you have the free Vp7 codec installed, windows media player will play it plus other players on your PC.

Anyhow here is a clip I made straight from a HDV timeline in EIDUS using this new codec that you can download.
Here is the direct link to the 60 meg VP7 file.

Double click it and it will go full screen.
It looks amazing on my 22 inch screen at full size.

Not bad quality for the size for a 1280/720 @ 1500kbps
There is no version for the MAC world...ha ha..so unless you guys have dualboot...

HOW TO MAKE On2Vp7 CLIPS OUT OF EDIUS.

Divx, QT H.264 eat your heart out.

 

[PerroneFord]

Mr Wags,

I've seen you post this information on a number of video related sites and boards now. I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

1. You claim that this codec produces cleaner video than h.264. Do you find this at only low bitrates or at bitrates suitable to physical media playback as well?

2. Do industry standard players support the codec? Or is it flash player only?

3. I cannot seem to find anything, anywhere on the internet that suggests or demonstrates that the vp7 codec is in use by anyone in the film industry. I have seen overwhelming support for Mpeg2, mpeg4, apple ProRes, CineForm, DVCProHD, and a few other codecs in the film industry. I have seen support for the VP6/VP7 in things like the Skype, videophones, etc., where video has extremely limited bandwith and needs reasonable quality with those low bandwidth's. Do you have any examples of this codec being used professionally for higher end applications such as HD video, telecine, or other exacting work?

4. What streaming sites support the codec? I know that Stage6, which is my stream site of choice, will not. I am not necessarily a big divx fan, but it works well if you give it the data rates. Will Vimeo support it? What are the options if one goes to this codec and does not want to host the video themselves?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi
I thought I would share this with you guys.

As some of you know Macromedia (Adobe now) uses a codec called On2Vp6 for their Flash (flv) video. The company that made the codec, On2 has out a new version called On2 VP7 and I believe Macromedia (Adobe) have the rights to use it as well.
You need to go to the On2 site and download their free Vp7 codec.
VP7 Personal Edition

Once you have the free Vp7 codec installed, windows media player will play it plus other players on your PC.

Anyhow here is a clip I made straight from a HDV timeline in EIDUS using this new codec that you can download.
Here is the direct link to the 60 meg VP7 file.

Double click it and it will go full screen.
It looks amazing on my 22 inch screen at full size.

Not bad quality for the size for a 1280/720 @ 1500kbps
There is no version for the MAC world...ha ha..so unless you guys have dualboot...

HOW TO MAKE On2Vp7 CLIPS OUT OF EDIUS.

Divx, QT H.264 eat your heart out.

 

[Papa_Bear]

No argument, but as you said lower bit rate means not true HD! Other than that it is away easy way to publish HD for the web, Sorenson that is!

 

[PerroneFord]

No argument, but as you said lower bit rate means not true HD! Other than that it is away easy way to publish HD for the web, Sorenson that is!

What bitrate defines true HD?

Is it the bitrate that blu-ray offers? Perhaps it's the bitrate that DVCProHD offers? How about the bitrate of DVCam? When I recieve HD signals from Comcast cable or satellite TV at FAR lower bitrates, is that real HD? When I play the HDV signal from my camera's tape to the flatscreen, is that a true HD signal? Because that bitrate is pretty much the same as the miniDV bitrate.

Where is the defining line for what makes true HD?

 

[wags]

Of course it's not full HD.
Full HD is 1920/1080 @ around 140mbps and you need something like a $100,000 HDCAM to get it and not our little 25mbps Mpeg2 HDV camera's.

HD Digital TV is beemed out at around 20mbps in a Mpeg2 format, thats why you see blockiness sometimes.

Blu_Ray compresses the 1920/1080 140mbps HD footage down to around 1920/1080 @ 19-25mbps Mpeg2. It can use 1440/1080 as well. I have one here and yes it does look great on my 22 inch LCD but it's still not as good as the raw 140mbps HD.

What I am saying is that compared to the test clips I have made at 1280/720 with a compression rate of 1500kbps, the Vp7 stands out. Anything over 720/576 is considered HD size res.

I have made 1280/720 using H.264, Vp6, wmv, Divx, Xdiv and even used that Sorenson but are all are not as good as Vp7 at this same compression. Download the clip and see for yourself.

All I'm after is a codec that will allow realtime playback at 1280/720 for the net and still give out okay watchable quality.

I'm sure we will be seeing more of VP7 around the place as most computers now days have enough power to play it and I'm sure there will be sites popping up using it.
The bad thing is there is no player for the MAC world, but that may change if FLASH decide to use the codec.

Here is my FX1 beside a custom built Titanium housing with a HDCAM in it.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Howard Hall and myself with his homemade Housing for his Sony HD camcorder!

 

[PerroneFord]

Maybe that's why I am not seeing the issues you mention. I encode my 480i at 1500 kbps, my 720p at 3500, and 1080p at 5k or so. With Xvid or h.264. The vp7 may well be a superior codec, but getting locked into a flash format isn't something that appeals to me. None of the streaming sites I use support it. Windows Media is bad enough, though I have to go there for work. Usually, I do quicktime and I'm pretty happy with it. Going to Divx/Xvid for Stage6 caused some heartburn, but the tradeoff has been worth it.

I used to use Sorensen, then moved to other stuff like h.264. If the quality is important to me, I'll encode to quicktime with motion jpeg. Maybe if the VP7 gets wider support, I'll consider it.

Thanks for posting the info. I don't mean to see like I was anti-VP7, just trying to see how it might fit into my use. Doesn't sound like it does yet... for me.

What I am saying is that compared to the test clips I have made at 1280/720 with a compression rate of 1500kbps, the Vp7 stands out. Anything over 720/576 is considered HD size res.

I have made 1280/720 using H.264, Vp6, wmv, Divx, Xdiv and even used that Sorenson but are all are not as good as Vp7 at this same compression. Download the clip and see for yourself.

 

[wags]

Yes thats right, the only way you can use it is if you host your own clips on your site, then it's no good for the MAC folks anyhow..Maybe soon things will change.

Hey Papa Bear, Mr Howard Hall hey...did he let you have ago?

 

[DaFireMedic]

Back to the uploading of HD video, you can't beat the quality of Stage 6, but Vimeo is much easier to upload to. I use either h.264 or WMV 9 at 5-8 Mbps, depending on the length of the video. This seems to be a good balance of quality vs. file size at 1280x720 resolution.