How to make teams of three work?

[LiteHedded]

I am still not getting that warm and fuzzy feeling from you.

You may want to learn playing the ball (how to understand and improve team dynamics) rather than the person.

im not looking to give you any warm and fuzzy feelings.
your "team dynamics" can be improved by communicating better. if you drifted away from the platform the third guy should tell you this. if one of you guys sees him drifting that should be communicated.

I'm not playing the person. it's not just your fault. you all failed

 

[ucfdiver]

We (DIR) are a community that puts much faith in team diving and IMO we should have a similar awareness of the challenges and engage in similar training. I was hoping that after the Miller accident some guidance would come down from the top. Maybe it will and I am just too impatient.

What do you want to hear from "the top"? Todd Leonard wrote exactly what happened and exactly why it happened, the very day it happened. I've spoke to people on site, as well as JJ/Casey and I assure you that nothing is being hidden. Jim plugged the wrong bottle into his RB80, a bottle that was marked clearly and that implies he didn't ask teammates for verification. It's' a mistake similar to one of us not doing a bubble check to save time when we're hot dropping on a wreck, just the consequences were more serious-- but the logic was the same. Good divers made a mistake, team size was irrelevant.

If you're still mad about failing fundies, just say that-- I don't think a lot of things were handled well during that course, even after talking one on one with your teammates. However, pouring salt in a new wound that's completely unrelated to the topic at hand is pretty despicable.

 

[Lobzilla]

im not looking to give you any warm and fuzzy feelings.
your "team dynamics" can be improved by communicating better. if you drifted away from the platform the third guy should tell you this. if one of you guys sees him drifting that should be communicated.

I'm not playing the person. it's not just your fault. you all failed

So now your are kicking three people instead of one while repeating the obvious - that team dynamics need to be improved. Gee, that did not occur to me before starting this thread.

Let me ask you this: Do you understand and have you practiced team communication and cooperation underwater to the degree of what keeps you safe as an airline passenger? If yes, you may want to write an article about it and send it to JJ for review. If not, than maybe we should start this process as a community.

At the beginning of this train wreck of a thread we identified already one important component of why bad stuff happens: Passivity. You see something going wrong but you do not do anything about it. Now we need to figure out how to effectively train being actively engaged in team safety.

The other obvious sin is complacency. Peter pointed out some exercises to keep everyone on the ball.

Could we please work together along these lines and put the training dive to rest that I merely used as an example to ease into a much deeper subject.

 

[Lobzilla]

What do you want to hear from "the top"? Todd Leonard wrote exactly what happened and exactly why it happened, the very day it happened. I've spoke to people on site, as well as JJ/Casey and I assure you that nothing is being hidden. Jim plugged the wrong bottle into his RB80, a bottle that was marked clearly and that implies he didn't ask teammates for verification. It's' a mistake similar to one of us not doing a bubble check to save time when we're hot dropping on a wreck, just the consequences were more serious-- but the logic was the same. Good divers made a mistake, team size was irrelevant.

If you're still mad about failing fundies, just say that-- I don't think a lot of things were handled well during that course, even after talking one on one with your teammates. However, pouring salt in a new wound that's completely unrelated to the topic at hand is pretty despicable.

I am past the Fundies class that was discussed several month ago - emotionally and literally. The three of us who did the training dive I used as an example for team challenges passed GUE-F together a couple of month ago.

However, I see in this thread the same "rounding of the wagons" that happened when people (not me) voiced their disappointment with that Fundy class. Some guys were all over the critics in an attempt to keep the nest clean.

Now, I voice my opinion that we as a community may expect too much from teams while we invest too little research and training into team dynamics and I get the same response: "Only beginners have this problem. Just study the class material and practice and you will be fine after several thousand dives."

When an airplane hits the ground at a speed that is unsurvivable for several hundred people there will be an investigation for the causes. The reports often read like this: Captain failed to do X, First officer did not catch the mistake, airplane fell out of the sky, no survivors. The more useful part of these investigations was that it let to the understanding how team dynamics allowed a mistake to slip through the cracks. With that understanding, procedures and training were revised and a measurable decrease of these incidents achieved. "Safety is no accident".

Is there any reason not to follow this example in our community. Are you guys really that "perfect"?

 

[Captain12Pk]

Your feeling is wrong. But hey, this is scubaboard where it is easier to talk about people than to talk about events or - god forbid - even ponder ideas or ideals.

I do not have a personal "beef" with my teammates and I did not interpret Zoom5's comments as an attempt to get personal. We know and agree on what each person's contribution to our recent CF was. What we are trying to figure out is how to stop future and different CFs in their infancy. To have a robust and scalable solution rooted in better teamwork.

The scope of my post was also not limited to our piddly training dive and its novice participants. I am simply struggling with the fairy tale of the "team thingy" miraculously working (without understanding how exacty) when - in reality - it often aggravates the hell out of me, got other (!) folks on each other's throats, and recently killed a very experienced divers. I consider myself lucky to be just temporarily aggravated.

Really? 'Cause I keep reading abot "Jim's accident" and "the Miller incident" and a team not verifying a gas switch. I don't remember reading those specifics. And they seem to have a bearing here somehow. Just my opinion. Good Luck.

 

[Rainer]

I'm beginning to get a clear sense why there might be internal team communication issues here. It has to do with not listening to others...

 

[Lobzilla]

I'm beginning to get a clear sense why there might be internal team communication issues here. It has to do with not listening to others...

Thanks for another kick in the balls. I hope you feel great now.

And thanks to everyone who for liked this nonsense comment without bothering with any of the facts.

All, please read post #11. I am guilty of passivity, of not having stood my ground (relative to the reference point), of not having stopped the drill and gotten the team back together. I did this to be nice, to not interrupt a diver who was obviously struggling with the drill. I made a wrong judgement call but I do not see what my ears or my ability to listen had to do with this.

 

[PfcAJ]

So what, exactly, are you asking?

NO team is going to work if the members don't pay attention, don't follow protocol, are scared to speak up, are overwhelmed, and/or have bad attitudes. Fix those things and teams work well, obviously.

 

[Lobzilla]

Let me ask one more time:

As a community that puts great faith in team work, do we have the understanding of team dynamics and the training to improve team cooperation that is on par with what we expect in other fields (for example aviation)?

If yes, where is this wisdom?
If no, why don't we catch up?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

At the beginning of this train wreck of a thread we identified already one important component of why bad stuff happens: Passivity. You see something going wrong but you do not do anything about it. Now we need to figure out how to effectively train being actively engaged in team safety.

It starts with listening ... you got the information you're asking for from your teammate early in the thread. Subsequent posts suggest you don't want to hear it.

It was the two of you that were drifting off together. I was staying in the starting position to act as a visual reference that everyone was ignoring. The drill started over the platforms and you guys ended it in blue water.

Just look back and forth at both buddies when doing the valve drill like I did, that way you know if you are moving out of position.

Sounds like good advice to me.

It's important to realize who did what if we want to avoid repeating the same mistakes. To put it simply, each of us screwed up, just in different ways. Rik should have paid equal attention to you and me. You should not have given Rik any space, signal for him to back kick or do a fist bump. I should have signaled with the light when it was clear you two weren't going to return to position.

-Sean

Sounds like more good advice to me.

We had a training dive this weekend where the three of us never got together as a solid team. At best, we had two divers paying attention to each other during drills while the third one was watching from the distance. At worst we lost one guy and the other two had no clue where he went and where he came back from (in excellent visibility).

For the person doing a drill (let's say a valve drill) it is hard to keep eye contact with two other divers simultaneously. So you tend to focus at the one who is closer and more engaged. That was causing the third one to "drift off".

How do the more experienced divers deal with this challenge?

... we listen to what our team mates have to say ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)