How to Engage Younger People in Diving?

[loosenit2]

Re: the military. Your answer to people who can’t afford basic necessities is for them to enlist in the army. Yeah I heard of that plan, my ancestors enforced it. It was called slavery. You want people to risk death, trauma, PTSD, sexual assault, and abuse because they can’t afford rent? Wow you should run for government, you’d fit right in.

You have a very jaded and unrealistic view of the military and that is not at all what @Midwesterndvr was advocating. He simply said that the military is a valid option for paying for college, which it is. The Post-911 GI bill is an extraordinarily generous benefit, 3 years of Active Service and a substantial chunk of college is paid for. One must also look through the lens of civic duty; all citizens have an obligation to contribute to the security of society, that does not require military service but does require some form of civic service. I came from a low income household and have advanced myself to a certain level of affluence through the military, they have paid for a Bachelors and two masters degrees over 25 years of service and I do not have PTSD, have never been sexually assaulted or abused. Have I risked death, yes, but not for wealth or glory, because it was my civic duty.

 

[Jcp2]

Well, I guess that if there are going to be an increase in the number of younger divers, no credit will be given here. I’m reminded of a campfire surrounded by ranch hands lamenting the dearth of younger horse riders.

 

[Midwesterndvr]

I think it’s just a cultural shift in interest. Sure some young people will still become involved in diving but many activities face the same issue, look at hamm radio, or fraternal organizations, for example.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

Re: the military. Your answer to people who can’t afford basic necessities is for them to enlist in the army. Yeah I heard of that plan, my ancestors enforced it. It was called slavery. You want people to risk death, trauma, PTSD, sexual assault, and abuse because they can’t afford rent? Wow you should run for government, you’d fit right in.

You lost me when you compared the Military to slavery.

Unlike many other countries, my country has a mandatory service for all man & woman.

You think anyone asked me if i want to join ? or if they would care if i said no? its still not slavery.

Its a civil duty and one of the reasons you get to sleep safe at home at night .

 

[Angelo Farina]

You lost me when you compared the Military to slavery.

Unlike many other countries, my country has a mandatory service for all man & woman.

You think anyone asked me if i want to join ? or if they would care if i said no? its still not slavery.

Its a civil duty and one of the reasons you get to sleep safe at home at night .

In this thread I saw very interesting facts, showing the profound differences among countries and cultures.
Military service was mandatory here in Italy when I was young. I managed to swap it with one year service as a firefighter (and this was possible as I was already a rescue diver in civil protection agency).
Being trained to use weapons against other people, albeit "enemies", was not really acceptable to me.
If I had not the option to serve as a firefighter, I had asked for civil service, but I could not ever accept to be forced to become a soldier.
I see that in some countries military service is still mandatory (in Italy is not anymore, and my sons did avoid it entirely, which was good for them), in some other country is voluntary, but there are strong social pressure and advertisement making it to "appeal" to youngsters, for a number of reasons, including the economic benefits (as it was shown also in this thread).
In the US, apparently, several economic factors are making the life hard for youngsters:
1) There is no good public health service, so people struggle for getting a proper "health insurance", which is very expensive. Public health is excellent here in Italy, and completely free for everyone.
2) University is also very expensive, and typically it is better to search for a private one, as the public ones are worst than the private. Here instead public universities are excellent, private ones are crap, and the annual fee is quite reasonable (around 2000 euros), and who cannot afford this gets it for free, and can even get a minimal scolarship for paying lodging and food.
3) It is assumed that people get loans or money through the credit system. Here in Italy this is quite unusual, first because the banks give money only to rich people, not to broken ones, but also because borrowing money is considered a very bad habit: we are taught since when children to always save money, and to never spend more than you can afford, and never, ever ask money to a bank.
4) in USA it is assumed that youngsters move away from the house of their parents as soon as possible, perhaps even before being 20. And of course, due to the big demand which this creates, prices for lodging are high, and youngsters struggle for afford this. Here instead parents keep their sons at home much longer, typically well after 30. They move out only when they have a good job and monthly income, and they want to start a new family getting married and having sons. But this often occurs near 35-40 years old, and this is growing to older age year after year, due to bad general economic conditions.
The net effect of these profound economical and social differences is that the factors described in this thread as affecting adversely the life of youngsters simply do not occur here in Italy.
Despite this, we see the same overall trend as in USA: youngsters do not make outdoors sports or dangerous activities, and this does not affect just diving, but also sail boats, windsurf, kayak, motorcycles, mountain bike, downhill, parafly, mountain climbing, rafting, skiing, or simply trekking. Our sons spend most of their life at home, getting food and clothes ready from their parents, in their room with a computer or a smartphone, playing videogames or messaging on social networks (with the distinction between the two activities almost vanishing, as modern videogames are played online, while chatting with other players).
In conclusion, I do not think that all the factors discussed here (economical, social, related to tuition and lodging and military service) are the real reason for our sons not being anymore attracted by outdoor sports and activities.
I think that part of the problem was an error we made as parents: instead of leaving them free to spend their afternoon outside, playing with other youngsters along the roads or in parks, we attempted to keep them "at home" as much as possible, carrying them to specific places for playing sports with an instructor (swimming, playing basket, volley, tennis, etc.) and organizing their life for every minute of the day, always keeping them under control. We gave them smartphones already at elementary school, so they were connected with home and "traceable" when out of our sight. We protected them too much, warning them against many risks and dangers.
And this is the result, they much prefer to play a new videogame, staying hours in their room, instead of going out. Only reason for exiting home is going to a pub drinking some beer with their friends, but always by feet, as driving when drunk is dangerous and we taught this them so well, that they would not even think to take this risk.
So there is no wonder that our sons aren't diving (or hiking, or skiing, etc.). It is our fault, not their...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

In this thread I saw very interesting facts, showing the profound differences among countries and cultures.
Military service was mandatory here in Italy when I was young. I managed to swap it with one year service as a firefighter (and this was possible as I was already a rescue diver in civil protection agency).
Being trained to use weapons against other people, albeit "enemies", was not really acceptable to me.
If I had not the option to serve as a firefighter, I had asked for civil service, but I could not ever accept to be forced to become a soldier.
I see that in some countries military service is still mandatory (in Italy is not anymore, and my sons did avoid it entirely, which was good for them), in some other country is voluntary, but there are strong social pressure and advertisement making it to "appeal" to youngsters, for a number of reasons, including the economic benefits (as it was shown also in this thread).
In the US, apparently, several economic factors are making the life hard for youngsters:
1) There is no good public health service, so people struggle for getting a proper "health insurance", which is very expensive. Public health is excellent here in Italy, and completely free for everyone.
2) University is also very expensive, and typically it is better to search for a private one, as the public ones are worst than the private. Here instead public universities are excellent, private ones are crap, and the annual fee is quite reasonable (around 2000 euros), and who cannot afford this gets it for free, and can even get a minimal scolarship for paying lodging and food.
3) It is assumed that people get loans or money through the credit system. Here in Italy this is quite unusual, first because the banks give money only to rich people, not to broken ones, but also because borrowing money is considered a very bad habit: we are taught since when children to always save money, and to never spend more than you can afford, and never, ever ask money to a bank.
4) in USA it is assumed that youngsters move away from the house of their parents as soon as possible, perhaps even before being 20. And of course, due to the big demand which this creates, prices for lodging are high, and youngsters struggle for afford this. Here instead parents keep their sons at home much longer, typically well after 30. They move out only when they have a good job and monthly income, and they want to start a new family getting married and having sons. But this often occurs near 35-40 years old, and this is growing to older age year after year, due to bad general economic conditions.
The net effect of these profound economical and social differences is that the factors described in this thread as affecting adversely the life of youngsters simply do not occur here in Italy.
Despite this, we see the same overall trend as in USA: youngsters do not make outdoors sports or dangerous activities, and this does not affect just diving, but also sail boats, windsurf, kayak, motorcycles, mountain bike, downhill, parafly, mountain climbing, rafting, skiing, or simply trekking. Our sons spend most of their life at home, getting food and clothes ready from their parents, in their room with a computer or a smartphone, playing videogames or messaging on social networks (with the distinction between the two activities almost vanishing, as modern videogames are played online, while chatting with other players).
In conclusion, I do not think that all the factors discussed here (economical, social, related to tuition and lodging and military service) are the real reason for our sons not being anymore attracted by outdoor sports and activities.
I think that part of the problem was an error we made as parents: instead of leaving them free to spend their afternoon outside, playing with other youngsters along the roads or in parks, we attempted to keep them "at home" as much as possible, carrying them to specific places for playing sports with an instructor (swimming, playing basket, volley, tennis, etc.) and organizing their life for every minute of the day, always keeping them under control. We gave them smartphones already at elementary school, so they were connected with home and "traceable" when out of our sight. We protected them too much, warning them against many risks and dangers.
And this is the result, they much prefer to play a new videogame, staying hours in their room, instead of going out. Only reason for exiting home is going to a pub drinking some beer with their friends, but always by feet, as driving when drunk is dangerous and we taught this them so well, that they would not even think to take this risk.
So there is no wonder that our sons aren't diving (or hiking, or skiing, etc.). It is our fault, not their...

Kids are living at home here in the US much longer now than ever before. It’s not unusual to see young adults living at home until their 25-30 years old, even with full time jobs.
I think the bulk of the shift in what they do with spare time lies in the use of electronics and all associated digital activities. I remember even back in 1981 when I was working a few doors down from a brand new arcade that had the newest video games like Pac-Man, I used to see kids pile in there and spend hours at those machines. Then it all went private and moved into their homes. Now it’s so escalated with what those games can do and how much time they take each day. I’m not saying that all youngsters are addicted to the electronic world and video games, but a pretty large chunk are.
There is only so much time in each day, choose what you do with it wisely.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Kids are living at home here in the US much longer now than ever before. It’s not unusual to see young adults living at home until their 25-30 years old, even with full time jobs.
I think the bulk of the shift in what they do with spare time lies in the use of electronics and all associated digital activities. I remember even back in 1981 when I was working a few doors down from a brand new arcade that had the newest video games like Pac-Man, I used to see kids pile in there and spend hours at those machines. Then it all went private and moved into their homes. Now it’s so escalated with what those games can do and how much time they take each day. I’m not saying that all youngsters are addicted to the electronic world and video games, but a pretty large chunk are.
There is only so much time in each day, choose what you do with it wisely.

If it is not videogames, it will be socials (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp, etc...). But, as said, the distinction is vanishing, as they play games on socials, or socialize in games...
And modern smartphones make it possible to "stay connected" even when exiting home, you see people walking along the road or on the metro all with their faces looking at the small screen:

This becomes very dangerous while driving, of course. But they cannot get detached from their connection even while driving, and actually it is evaluated that more accident are caused by usage of smartphones on cars than on abuse of alcohol...

 

[KathyV]

I am sorry that I ever started this thread. I was hoping for an intelligent discussion about opportunities and ideas for attracting younger people to scuba diving, like the excellent suggestion by @Marie13 that some dives be geared toward newer and younger divers - in her case that includes shallow wreck dive trips in the Great Lakes.

Instead it has turned into a nasty exchange between older divers determined to gripe about "What's the matter with kids today!" and defensive younger divers who are justifiably angered by all the finger-pointing and negativity.

The thread has done the exact opposite of what I had hoped for; it is more likely to drive younger divers away then attract them to the sport of diving and I am very disappointed.

 

[tursiops]

I am sorry that I ever started this thread. I was hoping for an intelligent discussion about opportunities and ideas for attracting younger people to scuba diving, like the excellent suggestion by @Marie13 that some dives be geared toward newer and younger divers - in her case that includes shallow wreck dive trips in the Great Lakes.

Instead it has turned into a nasty exchange between older divers determined to gripe about "What's the matter with kids today!" and defensive younger divers who are justifiably angered by all the finger-pointing and negativity.

The thread has done the exact opposite of what I had hoped for; it is more likely to drive younger divers away then attract them to the sport of diving and I am very disappointed.

It was a good try.
But now the thread is too long.....so few new folks will read the existing posts before commenting, and the folks who prefer to try and explain why is is like it is will keep doing so, thus ensuring a polarized argument about why it is like it is and drifting farther away from how to make it better.
Time to start a new thread that begins with an extraction of the gold from this one, and asks some targeted questions...like maybe, "What are some success stories on bringing in young folks to the hobby?"

 

[Joneill]

In this thread I saw very interesting facts, showing the profound differences among countries and cultures.
Military service was mandatory here in Italy when I was young. I managed to swap it with one year service as a firefighter (and this was possible as I was already a rescue diver in civil protection agency).
Being trained to use weapons against other people, albeit "enemies", was not really acceptable to me.
If I had not the option to serve as a firefighter, I had asked for civil service, but I could not ever accept to be forced to become a soldier.
I see that in some countries military service is still mandatory (in Italy is not anymore, and my sons did avoid it entirely, which was good for them), in some other country is voluntary, but there are strong social pressure and advertisement making it to "appeal" to youngsters, for a number of reasons, including the economic benefits (as it was shown also in this thread).
In the US, apparently, several economic factors are making the life hard for youngsters:
1) There is no good public health service, so people struggle for getting a proper "health insurance", which is very expensive. Public health is excellent here in Italy, and completely free for everyone.
2) University is also very expensive, and typically it is better to search for a private one, as the public ones are worst than the private. Here instead public universities are excellent, private ones are crap, and the annual fee is quite reasonable (around 2000 euros), and who cannot afford this gets it for free, and can even get a minimal scolarship for paying lodging and food.
3) It is assumed that people get loans or money through the credit system. Here in Italy this is quite unusual, first because the banks give money only to rich people, not to broken ones, but also because borrowing money is considered a very bad habit: we are taught since when children to always save money, and to never spend more than you can afford, and never, ever ask money to a bank.
4) in USA it is assumed that youngsters move away from the house of their parents as soon as possible, perhaps even before being 20. And of course, due to the big demand which this creates, prices for lodging are high, and youngsters struggle for afford this. Here instead parents keep their sons at home much longer, typically well after 30. They move out only when they have a good job and monthly income, and they want to start a new family getting married and having sons. But this often occurs near 35-40 years old, and this is growing to older age year after year, due to bad general economic conditions.
The net effect of these profound economical and social differences is that the factors described in this thread as affecting adversely the life of youngsters simply do not occur here in Italy.
Despite this, we see the same overall trend as in USA: youngsters do not make outdoors sports or dangerous activities, and this does not affect just diving, but also sail boats, windsurf, kayak, motorcycles, mountain bike, downhill, parafly, mountain climbing, rafting, skiing, or simply trekking. Our sons spend most of their life at home, getting food and clothes ready from their parents, in their room with a computer or a smartphone, playing videogames or messaging on social networks (with the distinction between the two activities almost vanishing, as modern videogames are played online, while chatting with other players).
In conclusion, I do not think that all the factors discussed here (economical, social, related to tuition and lodging and military service) are the real reason for our sons not being anymore attracted by outdoor sports and activities.
I think that part of the problem was an error we made as parents: instead of leaving them free to spend their afternoon outside, playing with other youngsters along the roads or in parks, we attempted to keep them "at home" as much as possible, carrying them to specific places for playing sports with an instructor (swimming, playing basket, volley, tennis, etc.) and organizing their life for every minute of the day, always keeping them under control. We gave them smartphones already at elementary school, so they were connected with home and "traceable" when out of our sight. We protected them too much, warning them against many risks and dangers.
And this is the result, they much prefer to play a new videogame, staying hours in their room, instead of going out. Only reason for exiting home is going to a pub drinking some beer with their friends, but always by feet, as driving when drunk is dangerous and we taught this them so well, that they would not even think to take this risk.
So there is no wonder that our sons aren't diving (or hiking, or skiing, etc.). It is our fault, not their...

One thing I’d correct you on relative to your #2: nothing in this world is “completely free” and you actually pay for your “free” healthcare in Italy with very high income taxes:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-taxes-are-high-the-5-countries-with-the.aspx

Also, while I’m not a fan of the fixation on social media with the younger generation, I don’t believe that most young people are sedentary - in fact, they all seem quite active to me. My kids (early to mid 20’s) and their friends love to hike, rock climb and travel. I think we are just seeing a shift in priorities for where “kids” spend their money.

For example, my nephew and niece were recently certified and my daughter’s room mate is getting certified currently - so young people will do it if they have the interest. Hell, I only got certified 5 years ago at age 52 - so plenty of time for folks to discover the sport at different times of their life when they have the means and interest to do so!