How much would you be willing to pay?

[Geoff_H]

nope, no joke... what do You consider "fair" payment to administer a written test and do checkout dives?

For an hour written test and two checkout dives... I would be thinking $200.

and of course there IS demand for such an option (albeit not a large one) unless you believe that I am completely and utterly unique (not) in my thinking.

I believe you are virtually unique.

And , actually skills Can be taught from books... we do it all the time... dont try an make OW harder than it is. And bouyancy skills? good try... yeah they dont teach that in OW basic either, thats why they have an actual class called "peak buoyancy"... (which I'll never take as I think buoyancy skills are learned by diving, diving, diving.)

I don't believe you can learn diving skills from a book. You can learn the theory, but practise (even 4 closed water sessions followed by 4 open water dives) is a minimum to have any form of mastery... and even with 8 directly supervised sessions I believe the vast majority of divers are not safe to dive on their own.

Do you think you can learn to drive from a book too? You can get the theory but the practise requires at least some practise.

 

[redacted]

So in this scenario, who do you ask questions of? Did you go all the way through your certification and not ask one question? I am of the belief that too many people would take the approach "Ah heck, I will figure it out" rather than have to schedule an instructor to ask questions of.

Improve the instruction AND the testing and we have a safe certification practice (IMHO)

I'd have many options to get answers. This and other boards are great resources. I would hope that paying for additional instruction would be one of the options. But if an answer is important, I tend to do more research from various sources rather than accept one individuals answer.

Candidates who do not have adequate knowledge and skills should not be able to pass the tests. We need better testing rather than more inefficient instruction.

 

[DarkCoffee]

Hope you had a good time at the Porker Derby!

My two 13yr old daughters and I are going out for the open water dives for our C-card this weekend. We did all our training in land locked Winnipeg where the going rate is $450.00 each. So I guess my answer is that for the 3 of us, I was willing to pay $1,350.

The dive shop that we are doing ours through (underworldscuba) has been really good and they don't have a limit on how many pool dives you use to get your pool sessions done. We only used the normal 5 but it was nice to know that we could come back if we had missed some skills before we went out to do the open water dives.

I know that we could have found a cheaper way to do it if we did it in conjunction with a trip down south but our thinking was that we wanted to take our time and do things until we really felt like we knew them.

Hope that helps someone making a decision on it.

Shawn

 

[Thalassamania]

I never said, ...new divers have the skills that are needed...

My sentence only stated that they received the information. I submit that "sufficiently stressed" ANY diver is subject to death under water. It is up to the adult diver to take responsibility for their own safety (part of every dive class I've ever heard of...) and the limits proposed in class (artificial as they are) ARE sufficient to allow a new diver the chance to become skilled.

A 16 year old (In the USA) reads a book, does some tests and spends a little time learning to drive. Most new drivers survive not because they have the skills that are needed but because they are, by sheer chance, usually not stressed sufficiently to actually have to perform the skills they've practiced once on the road. When they are, we've all seen what happens. The skills are learned over time and experience. The same is true of diving

Agreed, but no one pretends that new drivers have "mastered" anything and unlike diving we do not tell them that they have.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Agreed, but no one pretends that new drivers have "mastered" anything and unlike diving we do not tell them that they have.

You might like to rephrase this statement. Instructors do not tell new divers they have "mastered" anything, nor does anyone "pretend" new divers have "mastered" anything (Unless the new diver embellishes skills) . They tell (new divers) they have demonstrated that they can complete the skill, in a closed environment. I don't believe I've ever heard an instructor who told a new diver they "mastered" anything.

I have, on the other hand, heard instructors tell their students they will be learning for the rest of their lives, and add that there are additional courses that can increase their knowledge and skills (Advanced classes, etc.)

 

[Thalassamania]

You might like to rephrase this statement. Instructors do not tell new divers they have "mastered" anything, nor does anyone "pretend" new divers have "mastered" anything (Unless the new diver embellishes skills) . They tell (new divers) they have demonstrated that they can complete the skill, in a closed environment. I don't believe I've ever heard an instructor who told a new diver they "mastered" anything.

I have, on the other hand, heard instructors tell their students they will be learning for the rest of their lives, and add that there are additional courses that can increase their knowledge and skills (Advanced classes, etc.)

"Mastered" is, in point of fact, the very term that PADI uses in their standards. As it is the dominant agency, most divers are being fed that crap.

 

[ScubaSteve]

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[BHB ScubaTroll]

"Mastered" is, in point of fact, the very term that PADI uses in their standards. As it is the dominant agency, most divers are being fed that crap.

Since I was not a PADI instructor, I cannot (and will not) speak for that agency.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree. This is my last response on the matter.

Good Luck.

 

[Thalassamania]

No one is asking you to "speak" for anyone. Even if you were a PADI Instructor you could not speak for the agency, it works the other way round. You may disagree all you want, but do read the standards, its all there in black and white.

 

[bfw]

With all the threads bemoaning poor quality training, skills left out, divers who can't dive, short fast training, etc...How much would you be willing to pay for a longer more thorough open water course? Instruction is generally about $300 around here.

That's about what our shop charges, for an 8 week course that meets PADI, NAUI, and YMCA cert requirements, includes a mandatory swim test, skin diving skills, bail outs, full unconscious diver rescue, no mask buddy breathing, and task loading, problem solving, and stressing drills. It takes longer, but it doesn't cost the shop more. One reason is that a shop with this teaching philosophy attracts and develops instructional staff who are less mercenary. They're part timers who are more interested in sound training than making a buck.

I help out with the classes as an AI, and I get shop credit. Whenever I use it, I always end up throwing a bunch of real money alongside it. One night a week it's nice to get in the water, but you couldn't pay me enough to give up an entire weekend all at once to work a class. Thus, old-school instruction can cost the shop less than the one-weekend quicky.