How much does alg matter for rec dives? Cheapest buhlman DC?

[ls1dreams]

Hi all,

After watching this video on decompression algorithms, I'm firmly in the camp that the reduced gradient bubble model & deep stops are the wrong approach.

With that said, if I only plan on doing < 30m non-deco rec dives, does the algorithm really matter?

Also, what are the most affordable buhlman 16 compartment DC's out there?

Leaning towards the aeris A300 ($200) or oceanic veo 2.0 ($300) which are mostly the same computer, but prefer the 3 line screen of the veo.

Any other models with a nice big clear screen in that range? Mares and Suunto both seem to use the rgbm.

 

[tbone1004]

can you wait a few months for the deep6 computer to come out? will be about half the price of those and be running buhlmann. only other one is the deepblu cosmiq which is running a very conservative set of gradient factors on buhlmann, but still running buhlmann

 

[scubadada]

There are many misconceptions regarding decompression algorithms. Pelagic Pressure Systems PZ+ and the Deepblu versions of Buhlmann are proprietary and the alterations made are not in the public domain. The Deep6 computer will be running Buhlmann with designated GF settings that you can run on planning software like MultiDeco and others. PPS PZ+ is middle of the road with regard to conservative/liberal. From what I've seen, Deepblu is very conservative even in progressive mode. Both the Aeris and Oceanic computers you list run the DSAT algorithm, the most liberal of the commercially available algorithms after Cochran. Many divers on SB don't think decompression algorithm is important, I believe it is one of the few variables that should dictate your choice of computer.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi all,

After watching this video on decompression algorithms, I'm firmly in the camp that the reduced gradient bubble model & deep stops are the wrong approach.

With that said, if I only plan on doing < 30m non-deco rec dives, does the algorithm really matter?

I think the short answer to that question is no.

If you have a recreational computer that is giving deep stops from a 30m profile then it will probably be 1 stop and it will probably be 1 minute. It would be unlikely to give you more deep stops than that unless you were over the NDL's. In reality, getting a lot of divers to slow their ascent somewhat by putting in a deep stop may help more than it hurts your profile.... so for recreational divers I think the issue is pretty minor.

Either way, in terms of recreational diving, if you are using an RGBM computer and you know you're going to get a deep stop then leave the bottom a minute or 2 "early" and/or extend the safety stop by a minute or 2 to compensate. Either strategy would be consistent with how I interpret Simon's conclusions.... in that context.

Also, what are the most affordable buhlman 16 compartment DC's out there?
Leaning towards the aeris A300 ($200) or oceanic veo 2.0 ($300) which are mostly the same computer, but prefer the 3 line screen of the veo.
Any other models with a nice big clear screen in that range? Mares and Suunto both seem to use the rgbm.

I can't advise you about individual computers because I haven't bought one in a while. Mares uses RGBM under licence and Suunto uses a propitiatory algorithm that they call RGBM but it's not "licenced" RGBM so nobody really knows how it works.

R..

 

[BoltSnap]

Forget the Mares and Suunto, the best entry level computers available on the market today with great features, highly reliable, excellent battery life and reasonable price are the Oceanic computers. You should consider the Veo2, Geo 2 or their Aeris equivalents.

Computers


These two offerings from SP are also great computers and priced very competitively:


This one, the Aladin Sport Matrix is an updated version of an older computer. Great features at most competitive price in its class:

http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/instruments/computers/products/aladin-sport-matrix.aspx



This is the most price competitive computer from SP:

http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/instruments/computers/products/aladin-sport.aspx


Any of the above are the probably the best value computers out there with good features and are highly reliable. I have owned and dove almost strictly Suunto in the last 15 years or so but now I see no reason to buy any of the new Suunto computers at all; they aren't a good value and they are not the best in features or underlying algorithm at all.

For higher end with AI, I'd consider offerings from Shearwater and Ratio-Computers. They are the leaders in higher end with AI and advanced/technical diving.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Mares and Suunto both seem to use the rgbm.

Suunto won't give you a deep stop unless you turn the Deep Stop setting "on." As for its RGBM, we see some complaints on SB from people saying Suunto computers give them less no-deco time on repetitive dives than their buddy's or some other computer, and we see other posts from people saying they like their Suuntos just fine. They are popular computers, and you see people using them all over the world. I'm not suggesting you buy one, just playing devil's advocate. RGBM and deep stops may be falling out of favor, but plenty of people dive safely and happily with Suuntos.

I'm in the camp that says algorithm doesn't matter for the kind of diving I do. Well, the algorithm matters to the extent I might want to play with planning software apart from the computer, but doesn't matter as far as keeping me safe. I would choose a computer based on other things, like the user interface.

 

[ls1dreams]

Forget the Mares and Suunto, the best entry level computers available on the market today with great features, highly reliable, excellent battery life and reasonable price are the Oceanic computers. You should consider the Veo2, Geo 2 or their Aeris equivalents.

Computers


These two offerings from SP are also great computers and priced very competitively:


This one, the Aladin Sport Matrix is an updated version of an older computer. Great features at most competitive price in its class:

http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/instruments/computers/products/aladin-sport-matrix.aspx



This is the most price competitive computer from SP:

http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/instruments/computers/products/aladin-sport.aspx


Any of the above are the probably the best value computers out there with good features and are highly reliable. I have owned and dove almost strictly Suunto in the last 15 years or so but now I see no reason to buy any of the new Suunto computers at all; they aren't a good value and they are not the best in features or underlying algorithm at all.

For higher end with AI, I'd consider offerings from Shearwater and Ratio-Computers. They are the leaders in higher end with AI and advanced/technical diving.

The main thing that bothers me about the oceanic veo series is that it's 7-8 years old now. They don't have a more modern model?

 

[BoltSnap]

The main thing that bothers me about the oceanic veo series is that it's 7-8 years old now. They don't have a more modern model?

They didn't indicate that the Geo 2 or the Veo 2 will going away any time soon when I me with one of their senior sales reps at this past DEMA. They eliminated the Veo 1 & 3 recently just to follow their sales trends. One can never say for certain that they won't come out with new versions this year but perhaps it is less likely now.

 

[tridacna]

They didn't indicate that the Geo 2 or the Veo 2 will going away any time soon when I me with one of their senior sales reps at this past DEMA. They eliminated the Veo 1 & 3 recently just to follow their sales trends. One can never say for certain that they won't come out with new versions this year but perhaps it is less likely now.

Why would they tell you that? I'd fire that sales rep's ass if he worked for me and did that...

 

[ls1dreams]

I don't need many features on a dive computer, but my biggest gripe are the screens. Are there really no DCs with high contrast/color screens and less than $300 that last longer than 6 hours on a charge? (OLED?)

I guess right now I have to trade off on one of these options:
1. 1-2 yr battery life, crappy LCD/matrix screen
2. 6-7hr battery life, nice LCD screen (cosmiq)
3. nice screen + battery life, but damn expensive (shearwater). $500+ even used.

Mostly looking for the following:
- high contrast, large (probably puck sized) screen
- algorithm that's close to something like buhlman 50/75
- at least 2 physical buttons or more
- air+nitrox (which is virtually all now)
- prefer an easy/cheap way to get dive logs off