How many people won't dive with a new diver?

[miketsp]

I may refuse to buddy up with someone for a specific dive if I estimate that the dive will be beyond that persons capacities or training. I.e. I've refused, to buddy up with a freshly minted OW-graduate on a boat (much to the captain's, DM's and diver in question's irritation), where the plan was for a 60m wreck-visit...on air, with deco. I couldn't think of any ways that would be prudent for the freshly minted OW, so I refused.

Maybe I'm missing the point here but how did the DM / Captain allow a freshly minted OW-graduate on the boat to do this dive in the first place?
That's certainly not my experience with operators. The new guy would not make it through the initial screening or would already be buddied up 1:1 with a DM.
However, if it did happen I would certainly refuse such responsibility and risk.

 

[RIDIVER501]

I am an instructor so I dive almost exclusively with new diver. actually i dive with non-divers, cause they ain't divers till they finish the course, but you know what I mean.

The oh-so-fabulous ones who fashion themselves Pagan Scuba Gods and won't dive with the newbies are forgeting that they were once newbies themselves....

They probably won't dive with newbies becuase they are afraid the Newbie's might see all the diving blunders and bad habits they have incorporated into their pagan scuba godliness

Who knows....sound like Macho BS to me.

 

[SueMermaid]

If it is a relatively safe and/or easy dive, I'd rather buddy up with a new diver. It's really nice to watch someone see stuff they haven't seen before.

 

[voop]

Maybe I'm missing the point here but how did the DM / Captain allow a freshly minted OW-graduate on the boat to do this dive in the first place?
That's certainly not my experience with operators. The new guy would not make it through the initial screening or would already be buddied up 1:1 with a DM.
However, if it did happen I would certainly refuse such responsibility and risk.

Well, I asked myself that very question, but since I was a paying customer on the boat, I do not know what their thought process (if any) had been, nor what agreements had been made with the OW-guy. Fact is, that we were in the middle of the ocean, and he was there.....

As for buddying our freshly minted OW 1:1 with the DM -- I still think that would be imprudent, considering the dive plan.

 

[Windminstrel]

I'm a brand new OW newbie, and don't want to be a pain to anyone when I dive. Alot of you folks say that you'd ask the newbie to plan the dive to make sure they're comfortable. So let me ask you, how/what do we plan? As a newbie, my plan tends to be "get in the water, look at cool stuff, don't break anything, and try not to bounce off the bottom too much, and oh yeah, don't get killed". What would an appropriate dive plan be for a newbie in a new location, on a boat dive?

 

[michaelp68]

As a new diver, this is an interesting thread to me.

I've gone diving with some very experienced recreational divers and some professional level divers.

I've also gone diving with divers who are new, like me.

One comment I have as a new diver is how grateful I am for the experienced divers willing to dive with me. At first, they may be taking a risk that I will end up ruining their dive, and their willingness to take that risk, demonstrate patience and assist are quite appreciated. As someone else on this thread posted, I hope that someday in the distant future when I'm experienced, I'll be able to repay and act in the same capacity for newer divers too.

Another comment I have is the important lesson I've learned, which is to rely on myself and my skills and not to depend on the experience and skills of the experienced divers. So far, on at least half of my dives with significantly more experienced divers, their compass navigation has sucked and gotten us lost, they've run dangerously low on air, they've become too cold to continue the dive, they've had poor buoyancy control, they've had poor dive planning, they've become entangled, and more.

Sometimes, these things will happen when diving. It's just interesting from a new diver's point of view that they don't only happen to new divers.

I'm still trying to figure out how to identify what it is that I don't know yet, and how to become better at what I do know. And even though there have been some hiccups diving with experienced divers, I've learned some valuable tricks and approaches to improving diving skills. So, thanks to all of the experienced divers diving with the beginners.

I particularly like the idea mentioned here of the experienced diver asking the newer diver to 'plan the dive'. It's a great approach.

Michael

 

[HammerNoMore]

A couple of thoughts on this. First of all the original post mentioned rescue. I can understand a diver not wanting to dive with someone who is not trained to help them if it hits the fan. I consider a dive with any unknown buddy to basicly be a solo dive anyway so I don't mind, but I would not expect everyone to take the same risks. Refusing to dive with a diver who is not rescue trained is reasonable behavior in my book.

Second, I have no problem diving with new divers locally and would be happy to help out anyone who wants to go down to the quarry for more experience. However, when I am on vacation, I honestly don't want my limited and very expensive blue water dive time to be reduced by divers who can not yet manage their air supply. It is for this reason that I seek out dive operators that run multiple boats and put groups together based on their experience levels.

James

 

[LeFlaneur]

I AM a new diver and have never made a dive without myself.
Yeah, and I suck air.

No matter how much experience I get, I'm sure I'd rather dive with a new diver than a cocky diver.

One of the worst parts of being newbies is that we feel like we're holding people back. That can make us rush and get sloppy and do all the things that make the old-timers roll their eyes.

I like the idea of having the newest diver crunch the numbers and plan the dive (subject to review of course). That's the best way to turn knowledge into skill.

 

[voop]

I'm a brand new OW newbie, and don't want to be a pain to anyone when I dive. Alot of you folks say that you'd ask the newbie to plan the dive to make sure they're comfortable. So let me ask you, how/what do we plan? As a newbie, my plan tends to be "get in the water, look at cool stuff, don't break anything, and try not to bounce off the bottom too much, and oh yeah, don't get killed". What would an appropriate dive plan be for a newbie in a new location, on a boat dive?

Picture this: Me and newbie X standing by the car, looking over the ocean...

Me: "So if we enter here and follow these pipes straight out, we'll hit a concrete block with a hook in it. At that spot, the water is about 9m deep. At that spot, we'll find a few artificial reefs (bricks, not wrecks), in a semi-circle, with lots of fishes. Anoter about 10-15m out, we hit 17m deep water, some green stuff growing on the bottom and a bigger natural reef with some gigant clams around it, some nudibranches and the resident fishes. There's very little current here, as you can see only some moderate surf, and there's lots of stuff to see on both the artificial reefs and the natural one. How do you think we should approach it?"

Newbie X: "I'd really like to see that natural reef, but my air-consumption suxx when I'm swimming, so can we not swim out to about there on the surface, then relax before going down to tie off the float"

Me: "Ok, sounds like a good idea"

Newbie X: "And since we're at 17m, our NDL is 56 min, so that's our limit time-wise"

Me: "Ok -- how long do you usually last with your tank?"

Newbie X: "Ohh, not that long, but I'll let you know when I hit 50 bar"

Me: "How 'bout when you hit 100bar (half a tank for the metric-impaired)? I'd like to know that we both have gas left to get back to the float, to do a safety stop and for when we swim back in, should the surface conditions change"

Newbie X: "Ok, that sounds good"

Me: "Remeber to check your gas every couple of minutes. I may also ask you during the dive what your gas is, ok?"

Newbie X: "Yeah, sure"

Me: "Ok, now, ..."

....etc...

On a boat, it would just start something like this:

Me: "Ok, you heard the briefing of the DM, how do you think we should approach the dive...?"

And then go on in the same way. No mysteries there

 

[Windminstrel]

Me: "Ok, you heard the briefing of the DM, how do you think we should approach the dive...?"

What would be an appropriate response to that?