How I almost drowned -- twice

[stepfen]

The proper way to dive the site is to go in at slack, wait for the current to build (you can see the fish begin to assemble) and then hook in. DEFINITELY get out before the current gets too high! (This is where local knowledge is essential!)

I was in Raja Ampat a month ago staying in a homestay (not LOB) for a week and diving with 2 (very experienced) local guides. Every day depending on the tide on that particular time the guide would propose some dive sites (and rule out others). Once a dive site was decided we would go there and for EVERY single dive the guide would go in first to check the conditions (currents, fish etc). Only when currents were ok he would give the good to go. If not we would move to another spot. By currents being ok I don't mean low or no current at all. We had several nice drift or hooked dives - one of them in Cape Kri itself. However he was so familiar that he knew where/when the current was going to be dangerous or too boring and he wouldn't start the dive. Out of the total 15 dives I did, we had to change dive spot 3 times because of currents not being favorable (and another time because the spot was too busy with other divers).

That made me wondering how would it be if I was on a LOB? (I've never been on one but I am considering LOB for next trips). I guess that the dive guides of LOBs although very experienced they cannot have the very good local knowledge for every dive site they visit. Can/Do they assess the conditions on every site? Also I guess that the time frame for each dive site is limited (the itinerary is more or less fixed and the boat needs to move on). What if you reach a famous site (such as Cape Kri) and conditions there are not good? You dive anyway hoping for the best or move to another spot? If you move to another site do you skip that famous site for good (personally I wouldn't mind but I guess some guests would mind to skip highlight spots)? How does it actually work with LOB?

Thanks for any reply and sorry for hijacking your post. I think though my questions are highly relevant to the incident you had back then.

 

[Diving Dubai]

That made me wondering how would it be if I was on a LOB? (I've never been on one but I am considering LOB for next trips). I guess that the dive guides of LOBs although very experienced they cannot have the very good local knowledge for every dive site they visit. Can/Do they assess the conditions on every site? Also I guess that the time frame for each dive site is limited (the itinerary is more or less fixed and the boat needs to move on). What if you reach a famous site (such as Cape Kri) and conditions there are not good? You dive anyway hoping for the best or move to another spot? If you move to another site do you skip that famous site for good (personally I wouldn't mind but I guess some guests would mind to skip highlight spots)? How does it actually work with LOB?
.

The same happens with a LOB. I've been on boats in Komodo as well as Resort in RA. While the LOB does have an itinerary they equally know all the sites they are visiting the tide times, and local conditions. Generally they have alternatives in the same area in case conditions aren't favourable to the guests they have on board. Because they visit the sites weekly they know all the conditions but they will do a check pre dive anyway.

 

[Diving Dubai]

This is my reef hook kit. Very compact with 5’ coil cord & 2 clips, the free end clipped on my chest D-ring & the hook end clipped on my waist D-ring to keep it from dangling when it’s not being used.

It works very well in Peleliu Express & Blue Corner (Palau). Got it for $15 in one of the dive shop in Sanur.

Like @charlier my go to is my muck stick which deals with most conditions or holds me in position while I find a good holding place for my hook.

I would not use the type of hook you favour Dan, it's too short, and the crimps on the thin wire are too flimsy

This is mine

So I have a double ender on the hook which you'll also see is attached to the final loop of the chain knot. The hook lives in my pocket with the line clipped to a D ring next to the pocket. If I drop on a site I know has current, or start to feel it, I re attach the clip to my crotch strap D ring.

As you can see in this pic I leave the double ender on the hook release it from the holding loop of the chain knot and simply pull. The line deploys. No unwinding line underwater. When I un-hook during the dive I simply clip the hook to a shoulder D-ring.

At the end of the dive, during the SS, I'll lock off the reel on my dsmb (if I'm the one deploying) or gently hover and chain knot the line again, tyding it all up and re clipping the whole lot to my shoulder D ring. As you can see below it's nice and compact.

Another reason I wouldn't use the coiled wire version that you have Dan, it that a natural fiber cord has elasticity and can deal with the loads imposed by current. A wire cannot. To give you an example, my line here has outlived one hook which straighten somewhat in a big (not pleasant) current. A wire would have given way. This config has seen over 200 deployments.

As an aside, I have a 6m extension line, where if the conditions are right, good vis, not stupid current lots of fish action, I'll fit in between the end of the line and me. I can then fly right out in the blue. Know this isn't something I recommend because it the hook becomes detached etc you're out in the blue and you're either kicking hard for the reef, or throwing up your dsmb.

PS sorry I didn't get to dive with you while you were here, I was suffering from a cold and congestion and also in SA on business. I promise to take you to the top of the Musandam one day, they had a Mola and Whale shark 2 weekends ago when I couldn't dive

 

[billt4sf]

In my experience the guides assess the conditions before splashing. Often the Trip Leader goes out before the briefing and takes a look. The dive guides usually stick their mask in the water some take a swim and look down.

In the OP, the Tour Leader was my DM and he looked in the water with his mask on. He may have been out before the briefing as well. He was an experienced DM and Tour Leader and I trusted him then and I would go with him again.

I stayed at Sorido Bay recently, and my assessment is that the DMs there knew Cape Kri better than the LOB Tour Leader. It's only natural that they would, they see it many days of the year. Some of them wouldn't go to Cape Kri -- they just wouldn't. Others were very hesitant. Other were willing to, once they knew our skill level.

This is not a whack at LOBs or LOB guides. We have been on that same boat maybe 5 times since that event.

No one can tell 100% what the ocean will bring. This is why I react negatively when people on S/B tell others that they should go ahead and go to Komodo or RA or wherever because as long as they get a good DM, they'll be OK. I just don't like hearing that. Again it's not a whack at DMs. No one can tell what the ocean will bring. Divers should have a skill level (and equipment) consistent with what might be needed on the dive. I think there's another thread on this board abut this issue as it relates to a wreck dive site in the Keys.

- Bill

 

[Dan]

I also have one like that bought on Mermaid. I went to Hermann on the dive deck and he cut off the big clip and I replaced it with a double-ender.

- Bill

You may need another double-ender to clip on the hook side, just like @Diving Dubai setup to avoid dangling & entanglement when it isn’t being used.

 

[flyboy08]

I wish there were a simulator based pool that one can feel up, down and horizontal currents.....every six months I'm put through the ringer in a level 3 flight simulator faced with situations that are rare, but possible. Certainly has given me more confidence should I face a real life situation.....

I've faced strong currents in Mexico. But never up or down drafts....I would like to train in those!

 

[Dan]

Like @charlier my go to is my muck stick which deals with most conditions or holds me in position while I find a good holding place for my hook.

I would not use the type of hook you favour Dan, it's too short, and the crimps on the thin wire are too flimsy

This is mineView attachment 453107

So I have a double ender on the hook which you'll also see is attached to the final loop of the chain knot. The hook lives in my pocket with the line clipped to a D ring next to the pocket. If I drop on a site I know has current, or start to feel it, I re attach the clip to my crotch strap D ring.

View attachment 453109

As you can see in this pic I leave the double ender on the hook release it from the holding loop of the chain knot and simply pull. The line deploys. No unwinding line underwater. When I un-hook during the dive I simply clip the hook to a shoulder D-ring.

At the end of the dive, during the SS, I'll lock off the reel on my dsmb (if I'm the one deploying) or gently hover and chain knot the line again, tyding it all up and re clipping the whole lot to my shoulder D ring. As you can see below it's nice and compact.View attachment 453110
Another reason I wouldn't use the coiled wire version that you have Dan, it that a natural fiber cord has elasticity and can deal with the loads imposed by current. A wire cannot. To give you an example, my line here has outlived one hook which straighten somewhat in a big (not pleasant) current. A wire would have given way. This config has seen over 200 deployments.

As an aside, I have a 6m extension line, where if the conditions are right, good vis, not stupid current lots of fish action, I'll fit in between the end of the line and me. I can then fly right out in the blue. Know this isn't something I recommend because it the hook becomes detached etc you're out in the blue and you're either kicking hard for the reef, or throwing up your dsmb.

PS sorry I didn't get to dive with you while you were here, I was suffering from a cold and congestion and also in SA on business. I promise to take you to the top of the Musandam one day, they had a Mola and Whale shark 2 weekends ago when I couldn't dive

Thanks for posting your reef hook setup. Pictures help as I’m picture kind of guy.

My 5’ plastic-coated coiled wire seems pretty strong. It held me fine in a strong current where the bubbles were almost going horizontal (see picture below). I tested in Peleliu Express & Blue Corner (Palau). We don’t need longer than 5’ (1.5m) anyway as the longer you have it, the further away you’d be from the hook, the higher you’d be from the reef, the stronger the current you’d face. The 5’ line keeps you closer to the reef, where the boundary layer of the streams is approaching zero. I can fin my self towards the reef and crawl on the reef towards the hook and unhook it.

The coiled wire with 2 clips is compact & streamline enough to stay on my chest D-ring for the free-end clip & waist D-ring for the hook-end clip (see the picture below).

When diving in a calm water, I do store it in my right BCD pocket with the free-end clip clipped on the BCD pocket D-ring (see the picture below). All of my safety gears, if they are not float, they will be attached to that BCD pocket D-Ring. I don’t want to pull them out of my BCD pocket unattached & sink.

Although wire won’t give (very rigid, stiff & little elasticity as you mention), but coiled wire would stretch just enough length to balance the forces acting on it. I guess time will tell on how good this reef hook is. I like it so far.

One of these days, we’ll find a good time to dive together in Musandam.

 

[Rred]

Bill-
When you say "unable to unhook", this is why I will not dive without my dive knife. This is why you will find offshore sailors, arborists, riggers, anyone who routinely works with line and rope, carries a knife. Not a BFK, not a Bowie, just a common sheath knife with maybe a 4" blade on it.

One day I was diving a jetty alongside a channel, and the nautical charts showed 40' maximum bottom. Except, at 40' I was only halfway down the jetty when a ghost net came in with the current and wrapped me up snug and tight. Instead of panicking, I reached for the knife (kept on my chest, hilt down) which only requires freedom of one arm from the elbow. Zip, zip, no more net, and I could take my time to assess the situation. But not too much time--because by then I was at 80' on the real bottom.

One good knife, kept razor sharp, cleaned and dried after every dive, and never used for other chores. The folks who say "you can't dive with a knife here"? No problem, I won't dive there.

 

[charlier]

Like @charlier my go to is my muck stick which deals with most conditions or holds me in position while I find a good holding place for my hook.

I would not use the type of hook you favour Dan, it's too short, and the crimps on the thin wire are too flimsy

This is mineView attachment 453107

@Diving Dubai, my wife has a similar reef hook with a double ender and a cord. She still prefers a muck stick, but carries the reefhook around as a backup.

 

[Dan]

Like @charlier my go to is my muck stick which deals with most conditions or holds me in position while I find a good holding place for my hook.

I would not use the type of hook you favour Dan, it's too short, and the crimps on the thin wire are too flimsy

This is mineView attachment 453107

So I have a double ender on the hook which you'll also see is attached to the final loop of the chain knot. The hook lives in my pocket with the line clipped to a D ring next to the pocket. If I drop on a site I know has current, or start to feel it, I re attach the clip to my crotch strap D ring.

View attachment 453109

As you can see in this pic I leave the double ender on the hook release it from the holding loop of the chain knot and simply pull. The line deploys. No unwinding line underwater. When I un-hook during the dive I simply clip the hook to a shoulder D-ring.

At the end of the dive, during the SS, I'll lock off the reel on my dsmb (if I'm the one deploying) or gently hover and chain knot the line again, tyding it all up and re clipping the whole lot to my shoulder D ring. As you can see below it's nice and compact.View attachment 453110
Another reason I wouldn't use the coiled wire version that you have Dan, it that a natural fiber cord has elasticity and can deal with the loads imposed by current. A wire cannot. To give you an example, my line here has outlived one hook which straighten somewhat in a big (not pleasant) current. A wire would have given way. This config has seen over 200 deployments.

As an aside, I have a 6m extension line, where if the conditions are right, good vis, not stupid current lots of fish action, I'll fit in between the end of the line and me. I can then fly right out in the blue. Know this isn't something I recommend because it the hook becomes detached etc you're out in the blue and you're either kicking hard for the reef, or throwing up your dsmb.

PS sorry I didn't get to dive with you while you were here, I was suffering from a cold and congestion and also in SA on business. I promise to take you to the top of the Musandam one day, they had a Mola and Whale shark 2 weekends ago when I couldn't dive

We did finally hooked up to dive in Musandam last month.

Diving Trip Report in Musandam, Oman, on May 18-19, 2018

Got a chance to see you in action with your hook.

Good idea about the double ender. I ended up adding a double ender on my Mermaid hook. Thanks to you.