How fit are you for a Rescue ?
- Thread starter Remy B.
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Both presenters are very well-known and respected diving instructors in the UK (Mark Powell is also the author of a well-known book on deco). I watched the video with great interest but there are things bugging me: at around 1 min 10 sec of the video, the voice-over says "before the rescuer has even found the casualty, his heart rate is 140 bpm". This, to me, seems excessively high (if one's heart rate is 140 bpm in normal diving conditions, there's definitely something wrong) ) and can only be justified by the psychological stress of a diver participating in a search/rescue/recovery operation. Furthermore (at around 1 min 30 sec into the video) the diver locates the casualty and at that point the rescuer's heart rate is 170 bpm _before_ he even initiates the stricken diver's lift.
While filming this video, I assume the 'rescuer' was aware that this was a hypothetical scenario, a staged exercise, therefore my questions/remarks are:
- if the rescuer's starting heart rate of 140 bpm was accurate, why did he have such an elevated rate (he couldn't have been under stress as he knew nobody was in danger); if the starting rate was accurate and the rescuer was not under stress, maybe he was not the right person to use for the experiment?
- If the heart rate was not accurate, but estimated, how could the 140 bpm be inferred as the heart rate of a rescuer in a similar situation? Furthermore, how can the remaining heart rate increases be reliable?
I do not dispute at all the role of fitness in diving and especially in the taxing situations a rescue would impose on a person; I do not want to belittle the effort put into creating the video or diminish its value - I just want to understand the measurements taken under staged conditions so I can interpret the results correctly and learn something from this.
While filming this video, I assume the 'rescuer' was aware that this was a hypothetical scenario, a staged exercise, therefore my questions/remarks are:
- if the rescuer's starting heart rate of 140 bpm was accurate, why did he have such an elevated rate (he couldn't have been under stress as he knew nobody was in danger); if the starting rate was accurate and the rescuer was not under stress, maybe he was not the right person to use for the experiment?
- If the heart rate was not accurate, but estimated, how could the 140 bpm be inferred as the heart rate of a rescuer in a similar situation? Furthermore, how can the remaining heart rate increases be reliable?
I do not dispute at all the role of fitness in diving and especially in the taxing situations a rescue would impose on a person; I do not want to belittle the effort put into creating the video or diminish its value - I just want to understand the measurements taken under staged conditions so I can interpret the results correctly and learn something from this.
We don't know exactly if this was part of a course as well, or they put a time cap to it, that by it self will elevate your heart rate, if we begin to assume things that will be our first mistake.
In the video it is as well mention psychological stress, even before he find the victim, as what you mention.
I can believe that if you know somebody is lost and you go to find him you already have some psychological stress on you so I find it a valid point.
If you start a search in rescue I really doubt you are in a normal heart rate, at least for the least experienced or the ones that never had conducted a real live rescue.
In the video it is as well mention psychological stress, even before he find the victim, as what you mention.
I can believe that if you know somebody is lost and you go to find him you already have some psychological stress on you so I find it a valid point.
If you start a search in rescue I really doubt you are in a normal heart rate, at least for the least experienced or the ones that never had conducted a real live rescue.
AJ
Contributor
As I understand they used Suunto heart rate monitor. From experience I know it is really accurate. What may have caused the high heart rate? Maybe not so much psychological stress at first, but physical stress. In a good simulation this rescue diver probably would have dificulties first to find the other diver in these conditions. Simply put: he had to swim hard to find his buddy first.
Furthermore, the are very open about the rescue diver not exactly being the fittest person around. I know from experience that even a few pounds/kilo's cause extra physical stress to my body, which in turn causes psychological stress. When I'am in good shape I lug my D12 around after a long dive with no issues. After the winter stop however I'am glad to be able lift it out of the water without gasping for air to much. Even the thought of having it to drag out of the water, up a slope makes me anxious. Shape makes a lot of difference when it comes to stress. Simulated or not.
Do any of you instructors teach to rescue a person with a Scooter ?, is it even possible to do so keeping the head of the victim above the water, by example attaching the scooter to you hip D-ring ?
I never had touched a Scooter, that is why I ask.
I never had touched a Scooter, that is why I ask.
great video. in my real life job, I train cops and firefighters. Rescue situations are stressful, bot physically and mentally. Being in shape is part of it. Being trained to function under duress is another.
I see fit guys get totally spanked be a fat, old guy with decades of experience and training.
I see fit guys get totally spanked be a fat, old guy with decades of experience and training.
great video. in my real life job, I train cops and firefighters. Rescue situations are stressful, bot physically and mentally. Being in shape is part of it. Being trained to function under duress is another.
I see fit guys get totally spanked be a fat, old guy with decades of experience and training.
And attitude-seen it many times, military and on the street.
Mr. big fit frozen, some "old guy" stepping in and taking charge.
Nice post sheeper.
Interesting idea Remy that I had never considered, course I don't have a DPV either.
That said, with doubles I would be more inclined to clip the scooter to the manifold. Clipping to a hip ring could pull the diver at an angle causing more drag and difficulty steering. The leash to the hip may not be long enough.
I've towed single cylinder divers while I've been in doubles and Sidemount for grins and giggles but never a full simulated rescue. Good video and good for thought.
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I find all of that very hard to believe. It makes no sense to have a pulse rate that high at the start when he knows it is a drill. Bringing the guy up in a total passive manner with near zero swimming should not cause an elevated pulse - unless the emergency was real. A good diver would be able to keep his pulse rate way down and be reasonably calm in a training session.
On land at the ramp, the rescuer has a BPM of 180 and he is not breathing hard at all. When I ride the little bike at the gym that goes nowhere, when my pulse goes over about 142, I am sucking wind and hurting. Probably means I am not in very good shape, but at 160 or 170, I would be working very hard. Why does the rescuer not show signs of rapid and deep respiration? They represent this diver as middle aged and somewhat heavy - doesn't sound like an aerobic athlete.
Where are the exercise physiologists on this forum to provide some input?
On land at the ramp, the rescuer has a BPM of 180 and he is not breathing hard at all. When I ride the little bike at the gym that goes nowhere, when my pulse goes over about 142, I am sucking wind and hurting. Probably means I am not in very good shape, but at 160 or 170, I would be working very hard. Why does the rescuer not show signs of rapid and deep respiration? They represent this diver as middle aged and somewhat heavy - doesn't sound like an aerobic athlete.
Where are the exercise physiologists on this forum to provide some input?
Diver-Drex
Contributor
I wouldn't spend any time troubleshooting the exact numbers for heart rate. I agree at near max recommended heart rate for 3 or 4 minutes he should be breathing harder. Who cares?
The point is that executing a rescue is hard work. Rescue divers, DMs and instructors should not only be technically proficient but physically capable of performing a rescue. For most rescue certified individuals this is likely a self assessment.
For working DMs and instructors I would like to see an annual recertification process that includes the fitness component. I know that is extremely unlikely.
The point is that executing a rescue is hard work. Rescue divers, DMs and instructors should not only be technically proficient but physically capable of performing a rescue. For most rescue certified individuals this is likely a self assessment.
For working DMs and instructors I would like to see an annual recertification process that includes the fitness component. I know that is extremely unlikely.
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