How do you judge a diveschool?

[Pvandenb]

Hi all

My name is Peter van den Berg and I am a student at the Windesheim University in Holland. I am currently doing my internship as a product-researcher and I am focusing my research on dive schools on Curacao. My task is to create a ranking form to determine the quality of a dive school. I was wondering by which 'objective' criteria divers judge a dive school? What is it that you find important when dealing with a dive school? ie: Number of students per instructor, boat facilities, etc.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Walter]

I recommend students ask questions to determine the quality of instruction they're likely to receive. My recommended questions (and comments) are:

How long have you been teaching?

Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students?

Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn?

While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills?

There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle?

Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands?

This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim?

Divers should be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students?

Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students?

Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

Is the instructor patient?

While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman?

Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.

How many people will be in my class?

Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using?

Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water?

This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.

 

[deco_martini]

I have found that the ultimate test of a dive training center is to simply go along on their checkout dive. I did so at one facility local to me.

1. students left tanks on dock upright and unattended
2. students brought luggage bags instead of mesh gear bags on small dive boat
3. students didnt recognize or know how to use an octo holding clip
4. person leading checkout (who was an SSI master instructor) led students on an extremely jagged profile
5. person leading checkout had students ignore tables and follow him around they simply got low on air
6. person leading checkout led students on quick ascent (my cobra was started redlining so i just let the fools go on up without me, the SSI master instructor actually came back down the mooring line and tried to get me to hurry up)
7. students didn't know how to properly defog masks (they left their masks submerged in a camera bucket between dives and just put them back on again before the next one)

Now, this was the guy running the show at a long running established dive shop in my region who was an SSI master instructor with more logged dives than days I've been alive. I wrote SSI a terse letter regarding this man's master instructor credentials. (I was NASDS and now am SSI due to the merge)


I really think that if you try to get too empirical grading dive operations you can miss the point entirely. I think going incognito on a checkout dive and seeing how they do things followed by asking the checkout divers how they rate the training and service is the best way. Perhaps going incognito and taking their training class is the only real way to get a good judgement on how they do things and I think it is highly subjective.

Along with the textbook knowledge every diver should know there is some soft knowledge and etiquette that should be passed on to new divers. I equate passing on these tips and help as part of the detail that seperates a great shop from a standard shop.

 

[mania]

I would add to Walter's list - do your instructors also dive for fun or only with students?
Mania

 

[Walter]

I would add to Walter's list - do your instructors also dive for fun or only with students?

Excellent point!

 

[simbrooks]

I really think that if you try to get too empirical grading dive operations you can miss the point entirely. I think going incognito on a checkout dive and seeing how they do things followed by asking the checkout divers how they rate the training and service is the best way. Perhaps going incognito and taking their training class is the only real way to get a good judgement on how they do things and I think it is highly subjective.

Incognito in Curacoa sounds like a good plan to me

A lot of people dont know to ask these kinds of questions when deciding their OW instructors and some beyond there, most go by cost, time (usually the quicker the better in many peoples eyes) and of course some by the exotic nature of the checkout dives (Curacao would be included there i think). Very few people go for quality and value for money these days - i have been guilty myself, but i am trying to get better at it and my diving with a good instructor.

I agree with the initial questioning, and reviewing how they conduct the teaching/dives, qualitatively (rating 1-5 on a few points of conduct) is one way to present your findings if you are writing some kind of report/piece on the operations.

 

[Tresj2]

One thing that I find most divecenters that I've been diving with, after my certification, lack is: (as Walter said): Patience.
Not only out of the water when in class or in the shop, but also in the water. Especially when going down. For a lot of people the first couple of times going underwater is a bit unnerving. Most of the times the instructors like to get to the bottom as soon as possible and are halfway down, when the students are still trying to get the air out of their BCD's. That way they don't start relaxed, if they were relaxed in the first place, meaning: quicker on air, insecure (are they doing something wrong etc.).

Another thing is the age of the instructors. With all due respect for a lot of dive instructors out there, there are a lot of young instructors who think they are really cool being an instructor and they behave acoordingly, mostly trying to impress people. Sometimes you think they are motivated by the wrong reasons to be an instructor. They don't want to teach, they want to impress and do the thing they like best: diving. That does not necessarily make them good teachers.
I like to go diving with they old grey guys, who take it slow and easy. Who have nothing to prove.

My 2 cents
Gurt
------------------------
www.divestart.com - where and when to find your favorite critter

 

[Diver0001]

Hi all

My name is Peter van den Berg and I am a student at the Windesheim University in Holland. I am currently doing my internship as a product-researcher and I am focusing my research on dive schools on Curacao. My task is to create a ranking form to determine the quality of a dive school. I was wondering by which 'objective' criteria divers judge a dive school? What is it that you find important when dealing with a dive school? ie: Number of students per instructor, boat facilities, etc.

Thanks for your help!

I can follow most of Walter's list but I'm not sure this is the kind of list you're looking for. Can you tell us if this is what you wanted? Also, if I had to pick the top three things that were important to me personally I'd pick (in reverse order of priority):

3) Class size - I agree that classes of 4 to 6 are ideal. Too small means you're not getting to know other divers at your level and too big means you're waiting around too much and wasting your time.

2) Course duration - You want to learn the skills not get chased through a course and certified before you are ready. Huge numbers of instructors (often under pressure from shops) let time determine when a student is ready. This is really a major problem in the industry. The answer you're looking for to the question of class duration is "as long as it takes". Nothing else suffices.

1) Instructor real world diving experience - I would disagree with Walter that instructors improve over time by teaching. My experience is that they improve for a while (on the whole) but only the best continue to learn and improve. Experienced instructors can also get lazy, burned out, apathetic, stuck in paradigm-traps......etc etc. This doesn't just apply to scuba instructors, it applies to all kinds of experienced professionals in any occupation. So I would look for *recent* real-world diving experience in the kind of diving I want to do. For example, I wouldn't take a course in wreck diving from someone who had never done it except to get the teaching specialty. I want someone with wreck diving experience--outside of teaching--and lots of it.

R..

 

[Walter]

I would disagree with Walter that instructors improve over time by teaching. My experience is that they improve for a while (on the whole) but only the best continue to learn and improve. Experienced instructors can also get lazy, burned out, apathetic, stuck in paradigm-traps......etc etc.

Actually, that's not a disagreement, it's getting more detailed, but I do agree with you here.

 

[Pvandenb]

Hi all,

First I'd like to thank you all for your reaction on my questions.

It is nice to see the views of experienced divers on a dive school. You've come up with things that I never would have found. If you have any other criteria that you find important feel free to post them here.

@Diver0001, I am creating my own list with specific criteria, that enables me to judge the dive schools in an objective way. This is to my opinion quite hard, because diving is a personal product. That is why I asked you all to help me to determine good criteria.

These are the criteria that I have thought of:

* What are the prices?
* What is the amount of dives per course?
* Where are they diving? ( divelocations )
* What is the number of students per instructor?
* Does the course include books, lunch, equipment?
* Do you have the same instructor every time?
* What is the quality of the instructor? ( certificates )
* Is the course accredited and follows proper regulation? ( PADI, IDD, IANTD etc.. )
* Is the dive school easily accessible? ( close to the dive locations )
* What is the quality of the facility?
* Is the equipment well maintained?
* What is the equipment rental time? ( how long do they use their equipment )
When I finish my research I will post a link on the scubaboard forum, so that you can see the results of my research. ( it may take some time )

Thank you for your time and help!

Peter