How close is your Buddy?

[Peter Guy]

Kenny -- The reason my instructor had me clip off the reg, etc., BEFORE I started swimming to him was just for the object lesson of -- STAY CLOSE. It wasn't for the reason Rick said (I've been taught to "clean up" immediately after getting gas and becoming stable, NOT before) but just for the reason of giving me time to think that, "Sh@t, I don't have a reg in my mouth and my gas is 20+ feet away!"

Thal -- Why do "Find that surprising" that an old time Cave Instructor/Tech Instructor would do a skill like this? German's been doing this stuff for quite some time. Oh, and this was done in a Cenote, not a pool.

 

[bygolly]

During a recent dive I found myself working quite hard to keep up to an enthusiastic buddy and I slowed a bit to catch my breath and get some control back with my resp rate. That's when the gap opened even more and the thought came to me. What if I go OOA and I have to chase this guy...especially (as TSandM pointed out) when I am at the bottom of an exhalation. Then, the actual distance we are separated is not the issue, its the distance I have to cover to get to the gas. Depending on your buddy's speed that 20 ft could multiply to 40 ft or more and if your air hunger is somewhat desperate upon contact, the air sharing experience may get .... uh...messy. Other options then are more appropriate. I guess having that kind of buddy means you really have to be prepared for a solo dive.
But to get back to the thread...I like diving with my new buddy ...she and I stick together at a comfortable distance (rarely more than a body length) and we share visual contact often every 10 seconds or so and rarely more than 30. We also seem to travel at the same leisurely pace and have the same interests underwater. We also share similar philosophies regarding safety and we like to engage in the pre-dive discussion which includes buddy separation policy (drill?) and distance.

 

[Rick Inman]

(I've been taught to "clean up" immediately after getting gas and becoming stable, NOT before)

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Here's someone who was not close enough:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eath-alki-cove-1-today-please-read-links.html

 

[Thalassamania]

Peter, Sorry ... misplaced modifier. I'm not surprised at the skill at all, every class should do it and I'd expect an experienced cave instructor to do it. I was surprised at the 20 foot, but that may well be because you clip off and such before swimming.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

There is no set distance. It will vary with the skills of the divers and the conditions being dived in. You better not further away than you can swim after an exhale..... Practice this.

Also, I teach my students to stay close, especailly as the y are new divers and they need to work on bouyancy, airconsumption, and awareness. As they become more skilled and better communicators with their buddies, they will probably be able to widen the distance, but they still need to err on the side of safety. Just because I Can swin 65 feet to get to my buddy doesn't mean I have to.

 

[Noboundaries]

Last April when we were in Cozumel. One of the divers we had been with on several dives was extremely experienced with over a thousand dives. He and his wife were dive buddies and were diving with their own gear.

We were diving Santa Rosa Wall on our first dive of the day. After the dive we noticed Larry was already on the boat and it was evident he had been there for some time and was through diving for the day. When we asked him what had happened he told us of an OOA situation and a CESA.

Shortly after reaching max depth of 80 fsw, he suddenly had no air. His computer indicated a full tank. He checked the valve and it was full open. He switched to his Octo, no air. His dive buddy wife was up ahead of him about 20 feet about to enter a swim through single file. There were other divers around him, but he chose to do a CESA instead. When we asked him "why" he said he didn't want to ruin anyone else's dive.

His CESA was a success, but he said it was starting to get tough just before reaching the surface. The trailing DM noticed him in his CESA, but didn't catch him until he was on the surface.

Back on the boat his gear checked out fine with the tank he had been wearing. He also had his gear checked at the dive shop later and there were no problems. What he believed happened was debris in the tank clogged the valve, but that was not proven. It was never determined what happened but he was back diving with his same equipment the next day and had no problems the rest of the week.

I picked up two lessons from this circumstance. First, stay closer to your buddy. Second, don't worry about ruining someone else's dive. In this situation he could have easily signaled OOA, grabbed an Octo, then hooked up with the DM for an ascent allowing the temporary buddy to continue with the dive. I found his thought process of "not wanting to ruin someone else's dive" interesting. Basically he had two choices: air is just feet away but it will inconvenience someone, or air is 80 feet away by way of a CESA and no one else is inconvenienced. This was a good reminder that in an emergency there is no such thing as an "inconvenience." Feel free to inconvenience me all you want if you're out of air.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I picked up two lessons from this circumstance. First, stay closer to your buddy. Second, don't worry about ruining someone else's dive. In this situation he could have easily signaled OOA, grabbed an Octo, then hooked up with the DM for an ascent allowing the temporary buddy to continue with the dive. I found his thought process of "not wanting to ruin someone else's dive" interesting. Basically he had two choices: air is just feet away but it will inconvenience someone, or air is 80 feet away by way of a CESA and no one else is inconvenienced. This was a good reminder that in an emergency there is no such thing as an "inconvenience." Feel free to inconvenience me all you want if you're out of air.

People do the damnedest things. For the most amazing reasons. Perform a CESA so as not to interupt another's diving pleasure. Wow. just Wow.

I think people are contrary and I have to really know my buddy to trust them. Otherwise, I make sure I am capable of self-rescue. As an instructor and dive guide, I always have my lil pony bottle. Just for me, in case. Plus, I believe in redundant air source. But that's just me. And it can be like herding cats down there. Even with just one buddy..
MHO, keep your training fresh and always practice Something every dive. Then you make right reactions instead of odd decisions...

 

[Peter Guy]

Thal -- the reason for the 20 foot swim was THAT was the number I had told him I wanted. We had earlier done a 50 (60?) foot OOA swim but that was the more typical -- take a breath and start swimming and signalling -- not take a breath, clean up, swim and get attention.

 

[Sas]

To me it really depends on the type of dive. On deeper dives, say below about 15m, me and my buddy like to dive within touching distance. On shallow dives <15m if the viz is great we can be 3-4m apart, sometimes a bit more. Poor viz, we always stick fairly close.

 

[Charlie99]

I maintain buddy distance and POSITION/ORIENTATION to meet 4 criteria.

1. I'm close enough that I can get air from my buddy if needed. "Close enough" isn't a fixed distance, and is a lot further if we are just puttering around a reef as opposed to swimming at full speed. In the worst case, where my buddy is ahead of me and swimming at full speed, even 2' away is too far away. When possible, I do transits (swimming from point to point at speed) side by side.

2. I'm close enough to my buddy that he can get air if needed. Sounds like it's the same as #1 above, but it isn't. Relative positioning and awareness make this criteria sometimes quite different.


3. I'm close enough to my buddy that were he to suddenly go unconscious and stop moving, that I would still keep him in sight. Obviously, this criteria is affected by both visibility and our relative positions and speeds, as well as how much attention I'm paying to him.

4. I'm close enough and positioned such that if I suddenly go unconscious, that my buddy will keep me in sight. Again, this isn't quite the same as #3. This is particularly true when diving with new buddies and I have no idea of how much attention they are paying to me.

If your buddy isn't paying attention and is swimming away from you, the effective distance is much, much further. In that sort of situation a buddy distance of even a couple of feet can be too much if your buddy continues to swim away while you stop for a couple of seconds to sort out things, only to discover that you are out of air because of a reg malfunction.

Now it's more like a race, with your buddy having a headstart of several feet. Losing that race is a bummer.