Hogarthian diving; the definition.

[MSilvia]

I don't know that I would go so far as to say the long hose is not needed. What happens if you're out wandering around and come across a diver needing your gas or for that matter, that OOA diver came upon you? Sure would be nice to have that long hose so you both don't have to surface in a very cramped configuration.

It might be nice if that unusual situation occurred, but it isn't anything that couldn't be remedied by either buddy breathing or using a second air source. If solo diving as a rule, I'd definately go without the long hose, but would be scrupulous about having redundancy for self-rescue... in the case of breathing gas probably in the form of a stage-mounted neutral AL40 with it's own reg.

 

[Quarrior]

It might be nice if that unusual situation occurred, but it isn't anything that couldn't be remedied by either buddy breathing or using a second air source. If solo diving as a rule, I'd definately go without the long hose, but would be scrupulous about having redundancy for self-rescue... in the case of breathing gas probably in the form of a stage-mounted neutral AL40 with it's own reg.

Good point.

 

[MSilvia]

Good point.

Thanks. I basicly see two practical reasons to have a long hose.

First, when doing any sort of penetration diving, like entering caves or wrecks, the long hose would allow divers sharing air to swim through a tight restriction single file, which would obviously be difficult at best with a short hose.

Second, for open water diving, it's convenient to be able to share air with someone without having them right on top of you, and may make it easier to do safety stops in choppy conditions together, etc.

Solo diving in open water doesn't seem to indicate any real advantagethat would warrant the mild inconvenience of having extra hose to tuck away.

 

[Capnsnott]

IMO,
I kind of look at the long hose as an insurance policy. It's there if you ever need it (to hand it off). It does not get in my way, in fact, after a few dives it goes un noticed.

In solo diving, I see an al40 side hung as your backup/redundancy. I couldn't see diving without it. But I have only dove solo one time.

I see a case for having a backup 2nd stage in solo diving. If for some reason you should have a malfunction in your primary, you can switch to the backup. Or literally swap the bad reg out with one off the al40. That way you don't have a constant leak off your back gas.
I personally keep my 2nd stages hand tight for just such a case. If you had to switch to the stage, swap the malfunctioning reg back and turn off your back gas. That is unless you are diving solo in doubles, then you have a bonus of shutting off one side.


G

 

[Nemrod]

Sorry, did not realize "spareair" was a hot button topic. I don't see how carrying two of everything is being minimal in dive equipment. That is the dive shop "look" I think. Now I understand that in cave, wreck and other types of tech diving it is needed but open water to say 130 feet I don't think I need any redundant equipment and no octapus if solo. I do think the suggestion of adding a small cyclinder with seperate reg in lieu of a --shhhhh--spareair(whisper) might be reasonable without adding tons of clutter.
Diving without a BC is easy for people in warm water without any type of bouyancy suit. A lycra skin or such as that does not add bouyancy. If said person is not generously proportioned I have found that I can achieve a fairly neutral to slightly negative condition without a BC. I began diving before there were BC units. I have always looked upon them as a luxury. Once upon a time, I certainly remember that their was a controversy about BC units perhaps like--shhhhh--spareair--what you ask could that have been? Well, early dive programs relied more on actually being able to swim, having a certain level of fitness and water confidence that the mostly resort oriented dive industry now focuses on. I see certified divers all the time who CANNOT swim. Some have advanced ratings. I was a WSI in college. I am amazed at people who dive and cannot swim. It is this that has lead to this BC oriented, buddy required, equipment intensive approach to current diving styles that I am trying to free myself from. N

 

[Rick Inman]

The wing unit I have has a bit more size that the Halcyon rigs (well about like the Explorer set) in the link but it does allow me to remove the rig when shore diving and the use it somewhat as a swimboard to return to the shore.

Are you using an AtPac? I used to have one I dived back in the 70's and I loved the thing - as long as you don't need to dump weight (shot & marbles) which would corrode and freeze solid into the unit. We sometimes used them as swimboards.

...the barest essentials is my approach and in some instances that involves no BC. Sacrilege--perhaps--but I should point out that people dived before there were BCs.

True. Actually, you could dive without fins, too, but why would you? I was trained on a May west. Fins and BC's are simply diving tools that can make a dive more fun and add safety as well. In their day, horses were the best form of transportation, and many people still love to ride them. However, this is 2004, and I wouldn't want to take a horse on the freeway.

 

[jonnythan]

Sorry, did not realize "spareair" was a hot button topic. I don't see how carrying two of everything is being minimal in dive equipment. That is the dive shop "look" I think. Now I understand that in cave, wreck and other types of tech diving it is needed but open water to say 130 feet I don't think I need any redundant equipment and no octapus if solo. I do think the suggestion of adding a small cyclinder with seperate reg in lieu of a --shhhhh--spareair(whisper) might be reasonable without adding tons of clutter.
Diving without a BC is easy for people in warm water without any type of bouyancy suit. A lycra skin or such as that does not add bouyancy. If said person is not generously proportioned I have found that I can achieve a fairly neutral to slightly negative condition without a BC. I began diving before there were BC units. I have always looked upon them as a luxury. Once upon a time, I certainly remember that their was a controversy about BC units perhaps like--shhhhh--spareair--what you ask could that have been? Well, early dive programs relied more on actually being able to swim, having a certain level of fitness and water confidence that the mostly resort oriented dive industry now focuses on. I see certified divers all the time who CANNOT swim. Some have advanced ratings. I was a WSI in college. I am amazed at people who dive and cannot swim. It is this that has lead to this BC oriented, buddy required, equipment intensive approach to current diving styles that I am trying to free myself from. N

>snip<
People used to die much more often, too. Some >snip< people actually want to *increase* their odds of surviving a dive, so they do things like have a buddy.

 

[FreeFloat]

...equipment intensive approach to current diving styles that I am trying to free myself from...

Take up Freediving

 

[Nemrod]

To the gentleman asking about the Atpac, yes I remember those and have used them but the unit I am now using, tattered and worn is a SeaTec brand. I am not saying that it is a good unit, only that it is what I have been using. Reading some of your (collective you) recommendations from several threads has me thinking to try one of the Halycon or DiveRite units.
As to diving without a BC--I am not promoting it--only stating that it can be done and has been done by many divers--SUCCESSFULLY.The comparisons to horses is fun---thanks--but actually I guess my thought was, being as I am trying to reach a minimal state of equipment dependency, that perhaps it was not needed. Since I was discussing this I certainly take the feedback, positve or negative in the spirit it was given. BC units and the wing style units are certainly a core piece of equipment any diver should have--but---there may be times when it is not needed.

I read with interest the links on DIR and Hogathianism, thanks, while on the subject of that, don't those diving styles specifically mention fitness, water confidence, water skills, equipment maintenance? Do you think that DIR is consistent with weekend resort certifications and other basic certs that are now handed out almost to anyone who forks over the dollars? I do agree that diving is for everyone, even handicapped, and in those cases I think they truely do need lot's of equipement and redundancy and a good buddy to mentor and perhaps a minimalist approach is not suited for them until they gain those attributes. N

 

[grazie42]

My take on things...
Spare-air:
- It´s just too small...with an RMV of 0,5 (IMO, not consercative enough for the situation when you´ll need to use it) it´ll last for 6 minutes (at the surface)
- It´s to expensive...I can get a 40cft decobottle for the same price (used)...minimalism is all very well but, IMO, value-for-money comes into the equation as well and a 40cft deco will work for other kinds of dives than the really shallow reefdives you´re talking about (something that isn´t found here anyway)

Diving without a BC:
What works, works...if you say going without works for you, I see no reason to question that...
Would I dive without one? -No, but thats my decision for the kind of diving I do...to each´s own...

Swimming:
If diving without a BC, no question, knowing how to swim and swim well is a good idea...to say that the BC´s primary purpose is to keep poor swimmers afloat, if considering the "average diver", seems inaccurate...
"Should" divers be good swimmers? IMO, yes.
Do they need to be? Perhaps not
Do I think any agency really requires divers to be good swimmers? Not from the prereqs I´ve seen (and I have seen GUE´s)

Minimalist:
Minimalist can mean many things to many people.
For you it simply means "as little as possible" (or that´s my perception of your view anyway).
For me (and maybe others) it means "as little as is needed" where need is continually redefined to fit the factors impacting that particular dive.

One of these factors (again for me) is safety. Considering safety means not only considering what you need if everything in the dive goes right but what you need when it does not.

I thought I´d read it in a link somewhere but I "only" found it in a post when I looked today, maybe One Bright Gator(its his post) will comment...anyways here´s the post (which has become the way I think about the hogarthian system)

pretty much the only guidelines being take only what you need, and if you need it, bring two. It only covers gear configuration with one broad ideal which can be interpreted many different ways.