Hog vs Deluxe vs Transplate

[xiSkiGuy]

I have a Deep Outdoors Matrix LTD. It is one of the more pricey harness setups for a BP/W. It is certainly very comfortable and very easy to adjust, but lately I've been trying out a Hog harness. I find it very comfortable and adjustment doesn't take long at all. Much simpler and cheaper. Just as comfortable.

So what do people think about crossing the harness behind your neck? Is it more or less comfortable?

It is really personal preference and individual build. It doesn't take very long to reroute. Try both.

 

[Tavi]

Uncrossed works just fine for me!!

It seems like crossing behind the neck would lower the plate. I like the weight right were it is!!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Uncrossed works just fine for me!!

It seems like crossing behind the neck would lower the plate. I like the weight right were it is!!

Crossing the shoulder straps will do a couple things. It will lower the plate ~1-2 inches. It will also move the shoulder straps inboard off the top of your deltoids (top of the shoulder muscle) This can be more comfortable for people of smaller stature. It also move the shoulder straps closer to your neck. This can be problematic for the "large necked" and or may interfer with a DS neck seal.

Like most other things in Scuba, crossing solves some problems, but may cause others.

Tobin

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

I have Tobin's deluxe harness and like it a lot. The hardware is amazing. I ended up with the straps uncrossed because I liked the plate a bit higher. It's very easy to switch back and forth.

Cheers

 

[BabyDuck]

what they said - cross if you're narrower-shouldered and no need if you have wide shoulders.

my 2c is that i've had quick releases on other equipment come undone (not on a harness, because i've not had those) and be a pain for my dive. yeah, qr's *could* break, but i *know* they can come undone. if that's acceptable, then go for it. i just started with doubles, though, and i'm glad i don't have to worry about a qr coming loose while toting those puppies. i have enough trouble getting them in the back of my little suv and no hope of 'clean & jerk'-ing them on from the ground if i drop them!

 

[jc2]

I did my first dive in my new Hog Harness (48 degree water, tri-lam suit, SS BP and STA, LP 85 Steel Tank). Was kind of a pain to setup at first as I found several links to threading and sizing instructions but in my opinion no one has put together a good comprehensize easy to understand guide with good pictures that addresses threading and sizing. For example, that site with tons of pictures of the blue harness actually is instructions for a non-standard way of doing it (it mentions that but not until you are half way through the instructions!) I also was confused why both those instructions and the GUE diagram seem to indicate the buckle is installed on the right waist strap and mentions something about it holding a light on the right waist strap in place when in actuality it has to be installed on the left waist strap as far as I could tell since all the pictures should a left-to-right (right hand release). This brings up another point, isn't your release on your weight belt suppose to go the opposite way of your harness release?

Another glitch I ran into was I found it impossible to get a screwdriver hot enough to melt through the webbing - how frustrating. Luckily I remembered I had a soldering iron and that worked.

All in all I liked the setup, nice and simple. I believe I sized it too small though even though I did put on a big fleece sweatshirt and rain jacket to simulate my dry suit setup and was able to slide my hands between the should straps and my chest - they were pretty snug though. The shoulder straps dug into the base of my neck a bit. Probably just need to let out an inch or two in each shoulder. It's probably set up almost perfect for wearing a 3mm shorty.

I'm wondering how easily your hands should fit between the shoulder straps and your chest? I can fit my hands in but they are fairly snug. I think I should be able to more easily slide my hands inbetween right?

To be honest, I'm eyeing that DR Deluxe Harness that I have sitting in the plastic bag on the table. The webbing is WAY softer than the Hog Kit Webbing I got and to be honest that phrase on Deep Sea Supply's site about "stiff webbing sawing at your neck" really came to mind. It will probably be a non issue when my new neoprene 4mil dry suit arrives but does the webbing soften up that much over time? Or is there a place that sells the softer webbing like that is used on the DR Deluxe Harness? I honestly can't imagine this thing being comfortable if I used it bare with the webbing being so frickin stiff.


My trilam suit is pretty baggy. I had difficult time getting into the harness as my exhaust valve kept catching on the shoulder strap (again, a sign it was probably a little too tight) but after a long cold dive, I felt like I almost had to be cut out of the harness - yep, definitely too tight. Can't wait to get all this new equpiment dialed in.

 

[TSandM]

The waist strap buckle confusion is because they are talking about two buckles. The buckle that fastens the waist strap is installed on the left strap. The buckle on the right strap is a "free" buckle, which simply serves as a stop to retain the light battery canister -- it's easier to slide a buckle on and off than to use a tri-glide to do this.

This setup is different from the right-hand weight belt buckle/left hand waist buckle teaching. In our Rescue class, we talked about this, because if your rescuer goes down to release your weight belt, it's easy for him to get the wrong buckle. But it doesn't matter much, because you are generally releasing weights at the surface, and if he just undoes BOTH buckles, nothing untoward occurs. It was also suggested that one might color-code the weight belt buckle (paint it yellow).

For a good guide on adjusting gear, you can't beat Dan Mackay's book, Dress for Success. It shows the threading but also talks about correct adjustment and fit. Being able to slip your hand easily under the harness when you bend forward is a starting point, but if that leaves you unable to get out of the harness, it's probably still a little too tight.

I didn't like the stiff webbing much, either -- I got bruises on the insides of my arms from it. I switched to what Rick Inman calls the "weebly wobbly webbing" that Halcyon makes. (It's the only Halcyon thing I own so far.) That webbing has its disadvantages in terms of retaining hardware, but it is softer and more pliable and over all, I like it better.

I think my harness is adjusted just about optimally, but I still get my dry suit valve caught in it sometimes when taking it off. Not to mention my dry glove rings!

 

[alo100]

One thing I agree with jc2 is that, he can at least replace the cheapest part of the setup if he decided to use Deluxe. Another diver mentioned that, let's not getting the expensive branded harness first, in case you want to change to something else. Looks like it's a good advice.

I am not a tech diver yet, some of the reasons behind the DIR is still new to me.
Just a question in my mind (I asked the same question before in another thread) about the one piece harness, not trying to challenge the DIR, hope someone can tell. So in physics, if you cut a rope and tied them back again into one, of course you will have a point of weakness at the knot; however if it is not a knot, but a well built junction like those harness being used in mountaineering e.g. http://www.midwestmtn.com/products.php?sub_catID=36

these are tested items, good enough to carry a person's weight + strong enough to hold the person in case he/she falls from a cliff. They are not one piece systems, right, nobody question about the mountaineer designs, because they are tested before sold.

Back to the BC world, let's use Zeagle 911, you can be lift up with that thing:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=66415

I mean, if the design is correctly calculated, well built, and tested (this is something we can do measurement on, e.g. a stress test until we see the harness under design breaks, so that we can tell how much tension the system can take under different conditions etc, right?), it's just as good.
I still mean one piece is good, but it is not the only "safe harness" right?

Again this is only a question + my point of view, not a challenge.

Other things we can compare....
About the cost, any famous branded bp/w is more expensive than any average priced famous branded jacket style bc. If a person needs to add pockets, bag and other things to the bp/w, they're not very cheap.

If we break the harness, it's cheap to replace, if we break the wing it's not.
Yes, if we break any part of the jacket style bc yes, it's expensive.
How often do we break this and that, maybe somebody else can help me here...

On the other hand, I agree that bp/w is more streamline and it's the choice for double.
Speedwise, the speed to setup 5, 10 min for hog? 30 min for readjust in case of changing thickness of wetsuit etc, compare to 30 sec, 15 min repectively for deluxe, maybe?

Any thought, comment?