Hilma Hooker

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Am I wrong, or are you planning to do your first "real" wreck penetration dive solo?

If so, that definitely increases the risk factor of the dive. There are 5 Rules of Accident Analysis in cave diving that equally apply to wreck diving + a possible 6th rule. In fact, most of us who dive both caves and wrecks share that belief that wreck diving is more dangerous for several reasons, but much of which is related to far more entanglement hazards and degredation of the interior structures creating possibility for sil-outs and this would include wrecks like the Hilma Hooker and not just the Andrea Doria. In fact, wrecks like the Hooker may lure a diver into a false sense of security, and therfore, are more hazardous because they are not treated with the respect they deserve. Never underestimate a wreck.

5 Rules of Accident Analysis:
1. Be trained.
2. Always reserve 2/3 of your gas for exit
3. Always carry at least 3 lights
4. Don't dive deeper than 130 feet on air
5. Always run a continuous guideline to open water

6th Rule (if it were to be added): Don't dive solo!

These rules may need to be better modified for wreck diving.
1. Be (fully) trained. If you are going to dive solo, it is important that you have training in solo diving in a wreck environment. I developed the PDIC Solo Diver course because I felt that most people receiving solo cards weren't being adequately prepared. I took an SDI solo course with my NACD/TDI/SDI cave instructor in caves! We sort of added it on to my cave training and it opened a whole different world. As a wreck diver, I realized that divers who find themselves inside a wreck solo will need to have the ability to QUICKLY remove and replace their gear. This is due to the fact that gas goes fast at deeper depths, and if alone and entangled, a diver needs to sort that out efficiently so that gas reserves aren't compromised. Any diver diving wrecks solo should be able to remove and replace his/her entire equipment configuration including all accessory items while hovering just off the bottom without stirring up silt, while hovering in mid-water within a 3 to 5 foot window to simulate the need to remove gear if entangled in something that may be difficult to cut that halted your ascent in blue water without a line, and finally at the surface. The first three solo students I had, I had a divemaster who floated all the way to the surface from 30 feet trying to get back in his recreational rig and then I had two cave trained divers in DIR rigs take over 50 minutes to put their steel double tanks back on in drysuits and they needed use the bottom. I can remove my DIR rig in a drysuit with stages and maintain a 2 foot bouyancy window in blue water and get everything off and back on in a minute. How? Practice! If I haven't done the skill in a while, I'll be embarrassed at my performance, but if I practice it regularly it's a breeze. If you are going to solo dive, you need the ability to be self-sufficient in every possible scenario.

2. Reserve 2/3 of the gas for exit. The "exit" is the surface of the water. Cave divers often exit into shallow water, but wreck divers may have another 100, 130, or 150 feet to ascend before reaching the surface. There is absolutely no reason why two divers cannot make a gas sharing exit from max penetration, and have enough gas for all deco or safety stops and a slow ascent rate. Gas management is slightly modified for a solo diver, but one needs enough gas for the dive, for emergencies, and for a safe ascent. A Spare Air or a 30 cubic foot pony bottle won't help. Those of us who solo dive in caves, carry a "buddy bottle" which is usually an AL80 which will give us about 77 cubic feet of gas for the exit. Or, that can be reversed and the 80 used for the dive leaving all the back gas for the exit. When I wreck dive alone, I use an 80 as my bottom stage, I do my gas switches to my 50% or my 100% bottles during the ascent and I leave the gas in my twin AL80's untouched. If I lose bottom or deco gases, I have 154 cubic feet of gas left for exit and ascent. Gas management on the fly is every important. You need to know how time, psi, cubic feet, RMV and SAC are related. When I look at my pressure gauge and see something like 1500 psi at 130 feet. I know that I have approximately 75 cubic feet of gas left and 15 minutes of time factoring in a proper "reserve". I can do this instantly looking at the gauge and doing simple battlefield calculations in my head for tank size/pressure factor X psi (tossing out zeros) = cubic feet = 1 minute per each cubic foot at surface X ATA's = TIME. I intentionally made that vague because I don't want divers utilizing this trick without proper training, but I wanted to illustrate that all those "complex" SAC formulas can be done in one's head.

3. Carry 3 lights. You should have one good primary cannister light that can be worn on the back of the hand and 2 rserve lights that are dependable. You should check the integrity of your lights in the water and as you descend. Twist-on lights (often preferred) can activate as pressure increases and you want to check to see if this has happened as you go deeper and turn them off if they've turned on. For wreck diving add 3 knives and something that can cut cables, wires, spiderwire, etc.

4. Don't dive deeper than 130 feet on air. Hmmm ... I'd make that 100 feet or even 80 feet. Nitrox, Triox and Trimix are better choices, but using gases, having a buddy is a must!

5. Always run a continuous guideline to open water. You also must know what to do if you lose the line, if it breaks, and the procedures for lost line, lost buddy and how to solve becoming lost off the line or lost on the line solo as well.

6. Don't dive alone. The next action that costs lives of cave divers is solo diving. While this hasn't made it into the rules and I STRONGLY believe it should be a diver's personal choice whether to solo dive or not, it still needs to be given the proper attention it deserves.

In every cave death, at least 1 of the 5 or 6 rules had been violated.

I'm a strong supporter of the use of a reel + progressive penetration when wreck diving. It pays to recon a wreck and then use a reel but only venture inside in small doses until you can become familar with what is going on inside the rate of decay, possible hazards, etc.

Wreck penetration is technical diving for sure and solo technical diving is definitely not condoned and can be hazardous. Diving with a buddy is safer IF the divers can work together as a cohesive team and are familiar with procedures, skills, etc. It's funny how we have no problem thinking about practicing team sports such as football, baseball, basketball, hockey and lacrosse, doubles tennis, two man bobsled etc., but divers rarely practice. This is less true in the technical community, but practicing for dives is important. My group practices before every dive that is outside our normal diving parameters.

One student in my solo class took a recreational level boot camp I run to "tech up" their recreational diving so they learn the concepts the "real pros" use and can make their diving safer. Then she took, intro to tech which I ran like GUE fundies, then advanced nitrox & deco, and finally solo. She was used to being beaten, shark attacked, and challenged in failures based classes. The last dive of her solo course, I had her set up a solo wreck dive. She thought her world was going to explode lioke the first few minutes of Saving Private Ryan based on past experience. Instead, I just followed her staying above her tanks or hiding when the wreck interiors didn't allow me to use her blindspot to stay unseen. She kept waiting for me to mess with her, but I didn't. She said waiting for the defecation to hit the oscillation was far worse than having it actually hit. I laughed and told her that whenever she solo dives and finds herself complacent, I want her to remember that dive and then pretend I'm lurking somewhere so her mind could focus and remain ready and aware.

If doing this dive, the least I would recommend is carrying an AL80 as stage tank and testing it in water prior to descent. It would be better to become familiar with carrying an 80 prior to doing penetration. It's better not to stage tanks outside a wreck. Read the story of Chris and Chrissy Rouse for that. Carry your gas with you all the time. Cave divers can leave gas staged in a cave because the way out is often the only way out and if you can't figure out where you left it, you probably are not going to be getting out of the cave. There are too many ways out of a wreck and too much time can be wasted searching for where you may have left your gas.

For a better time, you might want to see if Benji can dive with you. You'll probably be impressed, learn a lot and it may change your life.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Let me know what the Hooker looks like. I haven't been in it since 1990.
 
No not planning anything solo.

I am a little confused as to the state of the Hooker and what is really there, so I will do more homework. I have been basic wreck and Nitrox trained and will be doing what is within my training with my wife (same training). The hooker is at 60-100ft (sand) and I will be using 32% diving rule of 1/3.

I will not have doubles, but I have been preparing to take the Adv-N/Deco course and my gear is suitable and nothing dangles. Will have 3 lights each, 2 knifes each. and I am considering taking a "spare" tank. not adding it into the air calculations but as a cushion for a first few penetrations. and will be running a reel even if it is not needed.

It is my preference to always have the option to breath air. I have read the popular books on the dangers of wreck penetrations and will be taking every possible precaution

Edit:
I have read the Rouse account, and I did not read all of your post when I mentioned the spare tank, I will take one I need the practice anyway.
 
yes? what would be the point of a wreck class without it? it would be just a visiting sunk junk course. we were taught how to use a line, fin technique, buoyancy, hazards, diagramming, navigation, orientation, and we went into a ship in nasty green water with about 2ft of vis, not sure how a silt out could be much worse but ill assume it is. actually when we were leaving it was about 0 vis.
 
we went into a ship in nasty green water with about 2ft of vis, not sure how a silt out could be much worse but ill assume it is. actually when we were leaving it was about 0 vis.

Yes, absolute zero inches is the worst it can get. I recently entered a cave in zero vis, found clear water after several minutes, then returned through absolute zero to emerge into the mucky basin in the Turks & Caicos. It was our first dive in it and we discovered it syphoned with the tidal change. I found myself in zero vis due to rust percolating down from our bubbles inside the wreck of the San Diego off Long Island.

Question: Was a two divers with "no-masks" or "blacked out masks" gas sharing exit part of your training?
 
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Dan, if that was meant as some sort of slight, I'm not trying to be hard on the guy. In re-reading my post it does sound like I was attacking him. Sorry about that. My question about no mask gas sharing exits was an academic one. I wondered if it was covered in wreck classes, because as you know, the skill is done in cavern training and many intro to tech courses.

Originally, I thought Sail was thinking about making his first penetration dive solo which prompted me to use this thread to educate divers that wreck penetration is a serious endeavor and sometimes divers are lured into a false sense of security by warm water wrecks.

I've seen divers from New Jersey get in trouble on warm water wrecks because they don't give them the respect they deserve. They believe their own hype about diving the toughest wrecks in the world and get in trouble in the Keys because they see all the single tank divers on wrecks. Then, they become overconfident. I had to make a rescue of one such NJ diver on the Spiegel Grove. His GUE & NSS-CDS training combined with his belief that the dive would be child's play caused him to get into trouble.

Conversely, I've seen divers take wreck classes in warm water that did not fully prepare them for the worst case scenario. While they thought they were well-prepared, they discovered that much had been left out because it was a basic class.

I think any wreck penetration training needs to match the same standards of cavern training from NACD and NSS-CDS, but geared toward the wreck environment to be adequate. That's why I asked the question about no-mask exits.

Sail, I apologize if I seemed to be on your case. Your question to the board in this thread seemed like a great place to address one of the problems that exist in dive education. It's nothing personal. My intent was to get you and anyone reading this think about every wreck as the Andrea Doria because every one has its own particular Venus Fly Trap type surprise. In the northeast, the USS San Diego is in about 90 feet of water, but it is upside down. It is where most beginner wreck divers start and where several instructors and experienced deep wreck and Andrea Doria divers have perished.

Most of the cave community treats all caves with a good dose of respect, but wrecks are sometimes not taken seriously enough by the diving public.
 
Dan, if that was meant as some sort of slight, I'm not trying to be hard on the guy.

I deleted my post because it was somewhat off topic.

...Most of the cave community treats all caves with a good dose of respect, but wrecks are sometimes not taken seriously enough by the diving public.

This comment is spot on...
 
I asked about penetration as I've seen a few people do PADI wreck diver and it wasn't much of a wreck class. The air share no mask drills suck, I just did something similar in an intro to tech class and did horribly at it, definitely a gut check. :shakehead:
 
Thanks all, I am fairly thick skinned and listen to all advice. I have a great respect for the dangers in wreck diving, have read Shadow Divers, Deep Decent, Complete Wreck.., even the TDI Advanced Wreck manual. most of the accident posts here, and read about many of the cave deaths too. I will be reading Sheck Exley's book as soon as it gets here today or tomorrow.

Seems you just have to mention a wreck and people want to warn you against china fever, while it is useful to be aware of the general hazards of wreck diving I was looking for specific hazards to the Hilma Hooker. I will be there in a few days and will be practicing safe diving within my training and having fun so I will answer my own question when I get back.

I will try some air sharing in the wreck in clean water to see how it goes. any other things I might practice? gear removal? swimming backwards? man overboard drills?
 

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