Hey Hoover ~ Did you ruin someone's dive?

[OE2X]

1) Do you offer to dive with the newly certified and obviously nervous fidgety guy who already has his reg in his mouth while sitting there on the boat? Remember... you are a noble soul... you were once a tadpole.

I would have to ask them what their experience was and then evaluate that into the dive plan. If I thought that this diver was going to be a risk to themselves or to me for this particular dive then I would not volunteer. Experience for a new diver shouldn't be on deep wall, with current and the potential for a free ascent. Altruism does not over come certain dive environments.

As it happens nobility doesn't come into play... the DM *assigns* you to the fidget. It is as you surmised... he is not only a tadpole but a shop vac. He sucks his air down in what must be record time. You've barely gotten to the bomies and the soft corals beckon... but your *buddy* is showing the DM his gauge and you know what that means.

2) Do you inwardly wish that the DM would just take *your buddy* and allow you to continue your dive since you still have 2/3 of your air left?

Yes.

3) How do you feel when the DM gives you the <pairupwithyourbuddyandascend> signal?

Short changed, but resigned. You go down together, you surface together.

4) How do you feel back on the boat as you as you sit out what would have been 45 minutes of your dive while the *shop vac* exults to the skipper how great the dive was completely ignoring you?

Since I'm so noble, I would talk to the guy and see if he was willing to learn how he could stay down longer. If he was receptive, then I would help him out during the SI. On the next dive, I would make sure I dove with someone else who's gas management skills were closer to my own. While being noble of attitude, but a commoner of means, I would have to look out for my own needs for this trip of a life time.

 

[ranger979]

This didn't happend to me... but it has happened to others.

This is for those of you (noble souls) who would never turn down a hoover as a buddy and are more than willing to sacrifice your dive.. because after all... you were a tadpole at one time yourself... blah blah blah...

Here is your scenario ~ answer honestly:

You aren't rich but through hard work and saving you've finally realized your dream and are on a dive trip to Fiji. You have no buddy along (the reason dosen't matter.) The day comes when you finally get to dive in the fabled Beqa Lagoon. The boat is a mix of buddy pairs and singles with several Fijian DMs diving as well.

1) Do you offer to dive with the newly certified and obviously nervous fidgety guy who already has his reg in his mouth while sitting there on the boat? Remember... you are a noble soul... you were once a tadpole.

As it happens nobility doesn't come into play... the DM *assigns* you to the fidget. It is as you surmised... he is not only a tadpole but a shop vac. He sucks his air down in what must be record time. You've barely gotten to the bomies and the soft corals beckon... but your *buddy* is showing the DM his gauge and you know what that means.

2) Do you inwardly wish that the DM would just take *your buddy* and allow you to continue your dive since you still have 2/3 of your air left?

3) How do you feel when the DM gives you the <pairupwithyourbuddyandascend> signal?

4) How do you feel back on the boat as you as you sit out what would have been 45 minutes of your dive while the *shop vac* exults to the skipper how great the dive was completely ignoring you?

Hmmm?

Still being a tadpole myself, this is definitely a purely hypothetical scenerio for me. Except, of course, the 'you aren't rich' part. That part fits me to a tee. It'll most likely be years before I see the ocean, especially nice tropical waters.

1) I would most likely not volunteer to be his dive buddy. I would try first try to find someone with similar experience than me. If, however, I am assigned him as a buddy I don't think I would turn the assignment down. If I were concerned that he was going to burn through his air in record time I would try to pair up with a third experienced person with the plan being that if one of us uses up their air much quicker than the other two that we would accompany them back to the surface and then continue the dive.

2) Yes, I do wish that the DM offer to take the diver up and let me continue with another group. After all, he is being paid for the dive while I am using my hard earned money to be there. I wouldn't expect him to take the diver up though. After all he has other diver to be concerned with. If he did, however, I would be sure to show him my gratitued at the surface.

3) I feel very disappointed and ascend with my buddy.

4) Again, I feel disappointed about the short dive but might take some solace in the fact that the new diver had such a great time that he is total obivious to the fact that I could have continued the dive much longer. I don't think I would expect any compensation from the diver. It is very likely, being a new diver that he doesn't even realize he cut the dive short. Although, he should get a clue when the other divers don't return until quite some time later. However, for the next dive I would try to find another buddy or find a third diver as mentioned in number 1.

 

[StSomewhere]

Pug, I was going to answer this in the other thread, but this is as good a place as any...

As a bit of a noob myself I've figured out that for a little extra money I can get my own DM rent-a-buddy, and maybe a bigger than normal tank. Not for every dive, but for those where I'm at or approaching the limits of my training/experience (that unintended driftdive in FLL comes to mind, but that's another thread) or where serious money was spent on the experience. The plus side is that the rent-a-buddy by definition shouldn't care if I need to turn the dive early or if I refuse to drop to 95 ft because I'm not comfortable at that depth yet (that's even another thread).

Frankly, it sounds like maybe your example noob is in way over his head and you'd have to ask why the dive op didn't figure this out until they got out to the dive of a lifetime. Or why the DM didn't offer to escort Pvt. Kirby back to the boat and "assign" you to the closest buddy pair.

 

[diverbrian]

Yeah, since I got these twin 250s I get at least 30 minutes @ 50'.

Yep, I knew there was a reason that I just ordered those PST HP 130's. Tom should have them in shortly too! Actually, I thought that you got a fair amount of time on the Niagara II that second day. And that was on AL 80's to my knowledge.

That brings up another point. My actual RMV in heavy gear (what I normally dive) is far worse than it is in the tropics with a 3mm jumpsuit and AL80. As it turns out, I can get nearly as much bottom time in the tropics as I can up here with my HP120. As we all know, that little bit of thermal protection would be completely impractical for dives in the Great Lakes.

But, as I said before... a thumb is a thumb. I don't ask, don't care, don't judge. If the person cares to tell me fine. If it "just felt wrong" down there... fine. Anything like this can lead to short bottom times. I will be around to dive another day and will not pressure my dive buddy into doing anything that might lead to "rescue mode". (I really HATE "rescue mode"! ) That is why Stress is the first word in the title of SSI's Stress and Rescue course. Do what you can to alleviate the stress and you likely won't have many rescues in your dive career.

 

[Goose75]

I would say no. No because, I should tell anyone I'm paired with what my experience is - and I definately am going to ask yours. If one of us is a hoover, then the other is accepting that by accepting the pairing. If one of us lies about our experience, I don't expect they would be considerate enough to compensate anyway. That leaves two options, stomping around angry, or making it clear the last dive is not going to be together. Getting angry just ruins what's left of the day. Part ways and enjoy what little is left.

 

[diverbrian]

Pug, I was going to answer this in the other thread, but this is as good a place as any...

As a bit of a noob myself I've figured out that for a little extra money I can get my own DM rent-a-buddy, and maybe a bigger than normal tank. Not for every dive, but for those where I'm at or approaching the limits of my training/experience (that unintended driftdive in FLL comes to mind, but that's another thread) or where serious money was spent on the experience. The plus side is that the rent-a-buddy by definition shouldn't care if I need to turn the dive early or if I refuse to drop to 95 ft because I'm not comfortable at that depth yet (that's even another thread).

Frankly, it sounds like maybe your example noob is in way over his head and you'd have to ask why the dive op didn't figure this out until they got out to the dive of a lifetime. Or why the DM didn't offer to escort Pvt. Kirby back to the boat and "assign" you to the closest buddy pair.

As a DiveCon, IF I was being comped for the trip, it would be my responsibility to take "Pvt. Kirby" myself from the word go and let the experienced divers like UP call their own dive and dive buddies as long as I knew when the divers were supposed to be back (like having a clue to advanced dive plans involving deco). I don't like taking someone that was planning a buddy dive and asking them to dive solo at the end of the dive (especially a DIR type that I know has it engraved in stone that you dive within a breath of their buddy at all times and will pull OOG drills at the spur of the moment to "remind" the buddy if they wander off too far. Myself, I am an occasional solo diver. If the dive is planned that way, I don't have a problem with doing it.)

Another example of the way that I like charter ops to run...

We were in Tobermory last year and getting ready to dive the Forest City. The stern of the wreck (arguably the best part) is at 150 ft. The captain noticed the EAN26 in our backgas (normally we dive EAN32 and nobody in that group has any certs for helium mixes). He wanted to see our dive plans at that point as he wasn't born yesterday. It wasn't an approval deal. His words were that "So mommy knew when it was time to worry." When he saw lean bottom mixes and stages bottles with EAN50 in them going with us, he knew what was up. He wasn't telling us what to do. He just wanted to know when to expect us and when we would be overdue if we didn't reach the surface by the time listed in our dive plan.

In other words, it is the divemaster's obligation to dive with the new, unbuddied individual if they know that the individual is a weak link. If the DM's style will crimp a perfectly acceptable dive plan, then they likely should not be divemastering that dive. This lets everybody have fun!

 

[kalvyn]

1) Do you offer to dive with the newly certified and obviously nervous fidgety guy who already has his reg in his mouth while sitting there on the boat? Remember... you are a noble soul... you were once a tadpole.

As it happens nobility doesn't come into play... the DM *assigns* you to the fidget. It is as you surmised... he is not only a tadpole but a shop vac. He sucks his air down in what must be record time. You've barely gotten to the bomies and the soft corals beckon... but your *buddy* is showing the DM his gauge and you know what that means.

To be honest, I would not offer. If I dropped a large amount of cash and flew a long ways to dive, I want to dive. If I did not have a choice in the matter, as per your scenario, I would talk to said diver before the dive about how they would be getting back to the surface once he ran down his or her air (yes, I said 'they'), and once they were back on the boat I would continue my dive.

2) Do you inwardly wish that the DM would just take *your buddy* and allow you to continue your dive since you still have 2/3 of your air left?

No, not really. I would ensure that he or she reached the boat safely, then I would continue my dive (I did this exact thing in Provo last week diving with my father-in-law). If this is not an option (continuing my dive), I have to admit I might be cheezed.

3) How do you feel when the DM gives you the <pairupwithyourbuddyandascend> signal?

Again, if I had no option but to ascend and exit the water with the other diver I would be fairly annoyed.

4) How do you feel back on the boat as you sit out what would have been 45 minutes of your dive while the *shop vac* exults to the skipper how great the dive was completely ignoring you?

I would talk to the DM about an alternate plan for the next dive(s), one involving me not getting out of the water but only escorting the other diver to the boat platform. If this was not an option, I must admit I would be quite annoyed and ask to dive with another person.

I just got back last night from the Turks & Caicos, and we had to deal with this very issue. My father-in-law could suck start a Harley, so what we worked out was the four of us would start the dive together. Once he got to a half-tank we would start for the anchor line. He would ascend the anchor line while the three of us would continue our dives for another 20 minutes or so under the boat.

Jimmie

 

[lamont]

This didn't happend to me... but it has happened to others.

This is for those of you (noble souls) who would never turn down a hoover as a buddy and are more than willing to sacrifice your dive.. because after all... you were a tadpole at one time yourself...ect...

Here is your scenario ~ answer honestly:

You aren't rich but through hard work and saving you've finally realized your dream and are on a dive trip to Fiji. You have no buddy along (the reason dosen't matter.) The day comes when you finally get to dive in the fabled Beqa Lagoon. The boat is a mix of buddy pairs and singles with several Fijian DMs diving as well.

1) Do you offer to dive with the newly certified and obviously nervous fidgety guy who already has his reg in his mouth while sitting there on the boat? Remember... you are a noble soul... you were once a tadpole.

As it happens nobility doesn't come into play... the DM *assigns* you to the fidget. It is as you surmised... he is not only a tadpole but a shop vac. He sucks his air down in what must be record time. You've barely gotten to the bomies and the soft corals beckon... but your *buddy* is showing the DM his gauge and you know what that means.

2) Do you inwardly wish that the DM would just take *your buddy* and allow you to continue your dive since you still have 2/3 of your air left?

3) How do you feel when the DM gives you the <pairupwithyourbuddyandascend> signal?

4) How do you feel back on the boat as you sit out what would have been 45 minutes of your dive while the *shop vac* exults to the skipper how great the dive was completely ignoring you?

Hmmm?

I know this isn't politically correct of me, but as I just completed a solo dive anyway, I might head back down and burn up the rest of the tank...

 

[Wijbrandus]

I am surprised at most of the responses I have read on this thread.

Sorry, I guess I'd thought better of some of you. Some replied true to form, but others...

I hope UP just had a bad day when he posted this.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Not at all Robert.

What specific responses are troubling you?
What would be your answers to these questions?

Try to put yourself in the position of someone who is on the trip of a life time... don't just come at it from the angle of someone who gets to go on dive vacations all the time.

Alternately you could put yourself in the position of the hoover and answer the intitial question keeping in mind that the person whose dive was cut short was on a once in a lifetime trip (for them)... something that they had saved up for and couldn't expect to do again for a long time if ever.