Here we go again, our LDS is offering another Groupon

[rhwestfall]

why wouldn't you want to buy your starter equipment from the LDS that you're taking classes from?

in some instances, that is like "putting the fox in charge of the hen house"....

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm not understanding something, why wouldn't you want to buy your starter equipment from the LDS that you're taking classes from? I bought my entire set from my LDS because the classes we're "free" that way. Being that this is a OW class, most don't know the difference between a Walmart mask or a Scuba mask.

Neither of the shops I have taught for had any kind of requirement that students buy their equipment from them, although it was certainly encouraged. A high percentage of students come to class having saved money by buying totally inadequate equipment at a discount store or elsewhere. Many come in with brand new dinky little snorkel fins. One of my students had his brand new el cheapo fins fall apart the first time he put them on. I just finished teaching a class in which a student showed up with a junky mask that did not fit her. I bet we lost 20 minutes of instructional time screwing with her mask. After struggling through that first pool session, she went into the shop and took the time to work with a knowledgeable salesperson to find the right mask for her. The second pool session was a whole new experience for her, and much less frustrating for the instructor.

It does not make sense financially to buy a set of cheap gear, throw it away, and then get the gear they should have bought in the first place. Now it is possible that the gear they bought before hand might work, even if they bought it in sealed packaging without trying it on at Walmart, but I would sure prefer that they know something about it before making that decision.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

in some instances, that is like "putting the fox in charge of the hen house"....

You are right in some but not all, maybe this LDS had a class where they spent more time trying to adjust faulty equipment than they did teaching skills? He didn't say a full set of equipment, I'm taking it to to be just the mask, snorkel and fins. Like Boulder John said, he spent 20 mins with one student, had another with them still in the sealed pack. What would happened if you had a class of 10 (which is too large) and you had to do this with 6 of them?

 

[rhwestfall]

I'm just saying, as I have seen both the "good" and the "bad". I have seen some outrageous "up-sells", and if this is combined with a "bargain cert", there is a chance for a shop to "re-coop" something...

Question: Why isn't "day 1" an academic session with an equipment introduction? Teach about the various pieces of gear, and their application. From there, it could be "have your gear for class #2"......

I can say from some of the questions that get posted here on a frequent basis, this should be a component....

Oh wait, we have to do all this in 3 days or less.... can't spent more time on...

 

[Colliam7]

LDS is offering another Groupon. This time he put in the clause that you cannot purchase equipment prior to the class. What does that mean? I think you know. Does anyone know how to write a review of these Groupons so I can tell people what to expect?

As I understand it, the only way to 'review' a Groupon experience is to have been a participant, through the Groupon process. You were not. Rather you and your husband paid full price, and happened to sign up with a less than optimal shop, where there happened to be Groupon participants in the class with you.

For others who are not aware of the OP's previous experience, I would agree that the OP's concerns are related to the partocular LDS. It appears from this thread that her only concern is to alert potential Groupon users to the 'strengths' and limitations of the LDS offering the Groupon opportunity, and NOT to criticize the Groupon offer. The comments in the thread that this has 'nothing to do' with Groupon are correct. But, as described in several threads, it has everything to do with the particular LDS. Read the OP's oringinal thread to better understand.

Issues of where to buy required equipment have been covered. Most 'legitimate' LDS would love to 'make the sale' oin the required basic equipment for OW, but won't require that OW students buy through them. They very reasonably WILL require that the OW stduent have proper equipment, and will charge for rentals if cheap / inappropriate / improper equipment fails during OW training. For example, if you buy a cheap mask through Wal-Mart and it leaks continuously in the pool, to the extent that you cannot perfom the necessary skills, and you need a different mask, I will tell you to go back to Wal-Mart for a replacement. If I have to loan you one for the duiration of you confined water training, I will charge you a rental fee. On the other hand, if the basic equipment was purchased through the LDS offering the training, they are also quite likely to 'loan' or replace proper equipment that fails. If I sell you a mask - even the least expensve mask we stock in the shop (a SeaDive Caribbean, which is what I recommend that students buy, IF IT FITS THEM), and it fails during the course, we will replace it, or loan you another one to use, at no charge. That is only reasonable.

One question, to the OP - did you ever finish your certification? If so, where, and what was the experience like?

We do not do Groupon / Living Social offers for OW. We DID do a Living Social offer for DSD this year. Sold over 400 coupons, expecting about a 40% redemption rate - it turned out to be over 80%. Wore the staff out, and we probably won't repeat it, even though we had quite a few 'conversions' to full OW.

 

[live_2_dive]

Groupon is frequently used as a last resort by businesses that are in trouble and can't get customers at the regular price with their normal marketing.

flots.

Maybe it differs by location, but I've never once seen groupon used by a struggling company. It's either been a newer local business that is looking for quick and super easy exposure, or a very well established brand/business that is simply taking advantage of easy and basically free marketing.

Seeing something on groupon shouldn't make you think the company is in trouble. It's not a bad thing to have products there...

Ok /OT sorry...


-------------------------------------------
PADI Rescue/DM 09100Z7445
Dr Dive/Wet Dream/Sea Cobra/Y-Knot/H2OBelow

Diving is my passion...I live to dive!

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I'm just saying, as I have seen both the "good" and the "bad". I have seen some outrageous "up-sells", and if this is combined with a "bargain cert", there is a chance for a shop to "re-coop" something...

Question: Why isn't "day 1" an academic session with an equipment introduction? Teach about the various pieces of gear, and their application. From there, it could be "have your gear for class #2"......

I can say from some of the questions that get posted here on a frequent basis, this should be a component....

Oh wait, we have to do all this in 3 days or less.... can't spent more time on...

I did the 3 day class, this did not include OW dives, the first day was class work and doing pool requirements. I hear people criticize the 3 day class all the time, but even the classes over 6 weeks, cover the same amount of time because the classes were 2 hours 1 night a week. the problem is a lot of people plan a vacation, see diving is offered at the resort then want to zip through a class and think they are divers. IE: I'm going to the Bahamas next month and I want to be certified by then. Diving like most things in life is a life long learning process, you never perfect it, hopefully you get better with time.

 

[TracyN]

LoL! I have to laugh about the Wal-Mart masks. I was guilty of buying a Wal Mart mask and snorkel for OW. Granted I bought the most expensive brand Wal-Mart had to offer, it was the 'professional' grade set for $29.95. Fortunately the mask was pretty good and served me well throughout most of my OW diving. The snorkel I just discarded after class. I did try to go into class with the fins I bought there as well but then I found out they were snorkeling fins.

 

[iluvtheocean]

A 3 day class that does classroom & pool but no OW dives? Are they "extra" or just given referral or what? i know class & pool can be done in that amount of time - just depends on the person whether it's effective or not.

 

[Heatheroe]

Thanks for everyone's response, I appreciate the input. Bottom line is that I want ppl to understand what they are in for. My husband and I did tons of research before we signed up and had already bought snorkel, mask and fins from another DIVE shop for a snorkeling trip the previous year. I just don't think people realize or are informed that for their OW dives that, unless they go on a special trip for more $$$, they are going to be done in a quarry in the winter and they will need to procure cold water gear for that. The shop doesn't (or didn't when we took our class) rent this equipment.
I tell you, this caused us so much stress that my husband had basically written off diving and said we weren't going to bother with it. Luckily (after a trip to Bonaire) he changed his mind. And no, we haven't gotten certified yet. Our target is for next summer with final OW portion being done with Stella Maris in Long Island. We did a Discover Scuba course with them and really like them. I also got an offer to get certified for basically just the registration costs back in Bonaire by someone who heard my story about the trouble we had and the money we've already spent. Just goes to show what a great community diving is.
We did a ton of research before deciding to sign up and went with this shop basically because of it's location to home. I know some people jump into this not knowing all it's going to take and I just want people to be prepared so they don't go through what we did.