Herd Immunity in Indonesia

[acidrush]

LOL. OK, you win. I'll add those who say the deaths don't matter to those at the bottom of the list of those begging for immunizations.

We should also add those that willingly leisure travel to high risk areas without a vaccine and come back infected. They should be isolated but put at the end of the queue for treatment if needed.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

I have not bothered reading this thread, but I did immunology research in an earlier life.

First, herd immunity is the goal of immunization programs, not a strategy. The idea is that so many people have acquired immunization that the few people who, for what ever reason, cannot be immunized Are unlikely to be exposed.

Herd immunity did not stop polio, small pox, TB, common cold, Ebola or any other disease. There is a natural background level of diseases in a population, where people who survive the infection are immune and cannot pass it on. To get there a lot of people have to get sick and many will die. Most (90%) Native Americans were killed when European diseases reached the Americas because they lacked any immunity to those introduced diseases. Europeans were more immune than the indigenous people, but it didn’t stop them from becoming infected and some dying.

If you are traveling into a country and you are not immunized, you are just asking Mr Darwin to thin you out of the herd. Waiting for Darwin to solve the Covid crisis is not realistic.

Tassie devils 'adapting to coexist with cancer'

I'm not comparing humans to wild animals. But here in Australia, very recently, one of our iconic native animals the Tasmanian Devil was nearly wiped out through disease. 80% of their population died from a transmissible cancerous facial tumor. Many scientists, experts and good natured people put in a tremendous effort to save the Tassie Devil from extinction. But in the end, what is saving the devils is that they have adapted & evolved for their immune system to overcome the transmissible cancer & co-exist with it. How this relates to humans, is that research from these creature's will to survive, will be used to overcome cancer in humans.

Herd immunity did not stop polio, small pox, TB, common cold, Ebola

I didn't know there was herd immunity for Ebola

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

We should also add those that willingly leisure travel to high risk areas without a vaccine and come back infected. They should be isolated but put at the end of the queue for treatment if needed.

OK, acidrush. That's the greatest idea to get to Indonesia

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

It wouldn’t matter unless it was you or your family that were dying. People watch Ebola outbreaks in Africa not because they are worried about Africans, but because they are worried it gets to their home.

From my point of view, I have a little more faith in humanity and I believe a large part of society worries about Africans dying in Africa from Ebola.
I see heartbreaking stories in oz ie. about a wheelchair bound, dementia elderly man dying from covid inside a nursing home. As sad as it was seeing his family mourn him via Livestream, it just strengthens my resolve how absurd so many of these restrictions are.
>90% of covid deaths are elderly people with co-morbidities, yet we have the military, police in riot gear treating normal people like dangerous criminals in the street...all these resources have NOT been used effectively to protect the vulnerable people who are at greatest risk! Restricting the freedom of the world's population did not effectively stop the covid virus, vulnerable people will always be at risk. If you're vulnerable, you have the choice to travel to Indonesia. And many vulnerable will travel to Indonesia because they want to live life, not complain on the internet about how helpless they are & how selfish others are

 

[CT-Rich]

I didn't know there was herd immunity for Ebola

There isn’t....yet.

Influenza*from Europe wiped out 90% of the indigenous Americans. I am sure that for many of them it seemed like no survivors. For the few survivors it must have seemed like the apocalypse. For the Tasmanian Devil, there was a real fear of extinction. I am glad to hear Mr Darwin decided to spare the species, that is frequently not the case.

*generally referring to old world infectious diseases

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Influenza from Europe wiped out 90% of the indigenous Americans.

It wasn't influenza that wiped out 90% of indigenous Americans, it was a combination of diseases, small pox, measles, cholera & influenza etc

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

There isn’t....yet.

Influenza from Europe wiped out 90% of the indigenous Americans. I am sure that for many of them it seemed like no survivors. For the few survivors it must have seemed like the apocalypse. For the Tasmanian Devil, there was a real fear of extinction. I am glad to hear Mr Darwin decided to spare the species, that is frequently not the case.

Recklessness in disease control (eg. people not complying) can have devastating effects, and I'm not just talking about covid. But recklessness in overlooking the obvious health issues & deaths being created by overbearing restrictions will ultimately have the greater devastating effect

 

[tridacna]

And many vulnerable will travel to Indonesia

You have absolutely no idea how few vulnerable people wish to travel in this pandemic. (Especially to a third world country with limited heath-care choices). I work part-time in a dive store. The overwhelming sentiment from that segment is NOT to travel at all. I'm not sure why you even think the way you do in this regard.

 

[CT-Rich]

Recklessness in disease control (eg. people not complying) can have devastating effects, and I'm not just talking about covid. But recklessness in overlooking the obvious health issues & deaths being created by overbearing restrictions will ultimately have the greater devastating effect

I don’t understand this assertion. Can you show data where overbearing restrictions are causing more deaths?
The disjointed and scatter shot approach to Covid in the US has resulted in 200,000 deaths. What could be more devastating than that? Covid 19 is the third leading cause of death in the US. It is beating out strokes, diabetes, accidents, influenza.... a whole bunch of stuff we spend billions and billions to fight. If you are going say the restrictions are causing more deaths than the disease, you need to show it....

 

[tursiops]

I don’t understand this assertion. Can you show data where overbearing restrictions are causing more deaths?
The disjointed and scatter shot approach to Covid in the US has resulted in 200,000 deaths. What could be more devastating than that? Covid 19 is the third leading cause of death in the US. It is beating out strokes, diabetes, accidents, influenza.... a whole bunch of stuff we spend billions and billions to fight. If you are going say the restrictions are causing more deaths than the disease, you need to show it....

LOL. You are feeding the troll.