Help?! Positively Buoyant....feet?

[terri717]

I'm completing (well, hopefully) my OW this weekend and I'm having a "foot" problem! Everyone thinks I'm weird when I say "my feet float", but I don't know how else to describe it. When I'm trying to descend, my feet float upward, so I'm not able to keep the 'fins down' position like most others. Also, when I'm at the top and am positively buoyant in my BCD my feet continually roll behind my body making me face plant the water or kick around like a fish out of water to stay upright. My husband says "just lean back on your tank and have your feet in front of you". But, when I do this and relax, my legs begin to rotate under and behind me. During our pool dives, again, my feet wouldn't stay down I finally just held on to my heels with my hands so I could stop being led by my feet. The problem with all of this is, beyond a descent nightmare, my back hurts from being so arched. I am wearing 7mm boots with fins that appear positively buoyant as they float on the surface. My husband's slowly sink. In the OW we are wearing 7mm wet suits. I'm average build but most of my weight is in the rump, as I have a long narrow torso but shorter legs. As long as I can complete the OW I'll be happy for now, but I can't imagine struggling like this on all dives. I'm thinking of ankle weights....worth a shot?

 

[OkByMe]

The fins might be part of the problem. When you put on your weight belt, do you have all or most of the weights across the back of the hips? That seems like that is where it needs to be to counter that rotation. If you are using a jacket BC with integrated weights, be aware that integrated weight systems usually have the weights too high and too far forward. Your trim is 3 dimensional and think about where you should concentrate your weighting to cause some rotation.

 

[terri717]

X-Stream - Open Heel - Mares

Those are the fins that I have...I don't know how to tell if they are buoyant or not.?

As for the weights, we're wearing weight belts that go around the hips, the belt sat just above my hip bones. The weights are pretty much even around because when I tighten/close the strap I'm pretty much weight to weight with the exception of the buckle/release. I had 20 lbs and did the weight test that when I lift my legs I sink down a bit below water, then when exhaling could hit the shallow surface bottom.

 

[OkByMe]

Try this in case it is a trim issue. Find some larger weights, 6 pound if you can find them and put them at your back with with smaller 3 pounds at the sides, try not to have any at the front. Just for the trial, if you need more weight, put on another weight belt with weight at the back. Check your trim then. Could be you might need to get some weight pockets that you can put at the back of the belt and put a bunch of soft weights in them. As for seeing if your fins are part of the problem... if your fins float they are... Swap for some jet fins - open heel, they sink. I dive the Seawing novas, but I have to watch it when dry suited because they float, the gaiters go on.

The other option would be to strap some weight pockets to the tank.. That will really put the weight off axis, and tend to "roll" you, and they would not be ditch-able. This is something you are going to have to experiment with. If you can't solve this on your own, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going to shop and joining a skills class. A lot of shops just charge a small annual fee to use their pool and there is always someone there to assist you. That will get you on track faster, and cost you less than buying the wrong gear that is not going to work for you.

 

[supergaijin]

The problem with all of this is, beyond a descent nightmare, my back hurts from being so arched.

Do you think this is cause and effect? I would try to schedule a pool session and try the 'dead-man' position. Assuming you were taught first to descend and then adjust buoyancy to become neutral, try this:

Go down to the bottom of the pool. Relax every muscle in your body. Do not concern yourself with anything else- you're still breathing etc., and 'sleep' for at least a full minute. It really doesn't matter if you end up standing on your head after a minute- just let the water do its thing.

Start to contract your hips a little and aim to balance yourself. Don't make large movements- concentrate on small movements. Nothing should be exaggerated leading to an overly arched back such as what you describe.

My internet prognosis is that a certain part of your body is tenses through 'stress' and you're compensating for this with another part of your body. Find the 'culprit' and remove it from the equation. Take all the time you need- consider doing this for a whole 'session' underwater if you have to. The reality is that it won't magically disappear once you're certified.

 

[TSandM]

Wearing heavy neoprene can make you a bit foot-light, and if your BC tends to ride up on your body so your tank is high on your back, that will add to it. If your integrated weights are in pockets that are on your sides and wrap around your front, that will tend to make you pitch forward at the surface, too.

The problem can probably be solved without ankle weights, but if they make you more comfortable and more relaxed for now, go ahead and use them. Once you have your body posture down, and have optimized your gear, you may be able to do without them.

 

[Searcaigh]

When the cooler temps arrive and I move back to 5-7mm semi dry suits I use ankle weights to compensate, especially when I dive doubles.

Additionally I discovered when I was in Indonesia last month the AL80s appeared to be lighter than the ones I own (with boots) and I was finding that the tank made me go head down at the end of dives (camera gear probably did not help though). a weight on a cam belt at the bottom of the tank would probably be useful too in order to maintain trim.

Some fins are more negatively buoyant than others

 

[Quero]

With the heavy wetsuit you're wearing and being a bit pear shaped to begin with, your legs may just float up. There are a few things you can do that I think are easier than wearing an extra weight belt.

First, try shifting your scuba tank so that the cam band is attached quite high on the tank. This will make the tank ride lower on your hips, pushing them down a bit, and with them, pushing your legs down.

Next, try to get some more negatively buoyant fins. One of my divers had a terrible time with this problem, and we got her solid rubber Gul brand fins (they're made in Japan). Trimmed her right out!

Make sure that you don't put weights in trim pockets of the BCD (if those are available) if the trim pockets are located near your shoulders or on the tank cam band, high on your back. If they're down low near your hips, that's better. With that much neoprene, you're probably taking a fair amount of weight to get you off the surface anyway, but make sure that you carry it as low as you can towards your hips. You can even strap some directly around the bottom of your tank with a spare cam band, similar to what you can see in this image.


Watch where you put your arms. Many of us model dive posture with our arms held out in front. In your case, it's probably better for you to hold them near your abdomen to help you shift the center of gravity a little further down your body.

Good luck!

 

[Colliam7]

Everyone thinks I'm weird when I say "my feet float", but I don't know how else to describe it. . . . . Also, when I'm at the top and am positively buoyant in my BCD my feet continually roll behind my body making me face plant the water or kick around like a fish out of water to stay upright. My husband says "just lean back on your tank and have your feet in front of you". But, when I do this and relax, my legs begin to rotate under and behind me. . . . I'm thinking of ankle weights....worth a shot?

You are certainly not weird. You description could have been a verbatim summary of what my wife experienced. Four thoughts:

1. You may well be a candidate for negatively buoyant fins. Once I put my wife in ScubaPro Jetfins, the problem essentially went away. (There was more to it than equipment, though, as I note below).

2. Ankle weights are worth a shot, as a diagnostic tool, if nothing else. If you put on ankle weights, in your current positively buoyant fins, and the problem resolves, you have an indication that negative fins may be useful. The investment in ankle weights in minimal compared to fins, and you can always find a use for ankle weights to help with trim adjustment - they actually don't have to go on you ankles.

3. I fully agree with supergaijin's recommendation. Challenges with trim, particularly for new divers, are not uncommonly a reflection of subtle hand/foot movements, or body position, that the diver is actually not even aware of. For example, when you try to relax at the surface, and your feet roll underneath you, is there a trigger - a movement of your fins, perhaps, that you make in an effort to prevent you feet from moving, that actually causes the roll?. My wife's perception of rolling at the surface arose from a combination of her fins, AND her reaction to the feeling of rolling (movement of her fin tips that she was really not aware of).

It is hard to diagnose from afar, without 'video'. But, I often see divers engaging in some for of 'station keeping' while in the water - sculling with hands, or flnning ever so slightly with the tips of fins - that creates a problem with trim. I often have AOW students that I have not worked with previously do exactly what supergaijin suggests, albeit in OW - go to the bottom of the pool, or to a shallow u/w platform, and relax everything, IOW just breath, don't move, and let nature take its course. What I am looking for is in what position / attitude do they end up. Then I can help them adjust weight distribution as needed to see if that improves their trim.

4. Since you are in an OW class, what does the instructor have to say about the problem?

 

[tstormdiver]

You by far are not the only one to have this issue. I am quite "nose heavy". I have found ways to cope,.. depending on the configuration I'm diving. For recreational, I tend to carry most of my weight in the lower, front pockets of the BC & the cylinder lower. When diving double cylinders, I have my back plate moved all the way down & my wings moved down as far as I can (Can't be all the way down because the wing then pushes my head down). I use a 3# tail weight on my double 108's & a 5# weight on my 130's (shorter cylinders). On my rebreather, I have moved the wings up & moved my cylinders as far down as I can.