Help Get BC Myths Tested On MythBusters!

[elmer fudd]

What I've been thinking for awhile now is that no BC on the market is really very good at all for streamlining.

In order to present as small a profile as possible, a deflated BC should either collapse to minuscule proportions or lie completely flat against the body. About the closest thing to this is perhaps an old horse collar BC.

My wing certainly doesn't do this. A collapsed wing is still a bunch of floppy material on your back. Even a bungied wing is just a bunch of floppy material constrained by bungee cords. A back inflate BC is really just a wing integrated with a harness. The vests I have had and used aren't any better. In fact they have seemed worse, (by my own subjective standards). Kind of like puffy life jackets.

So here's what I'm thinking might work better. One method might be a wing with some sort of lycra cummerbund attached to it. The idea would be that as the wing deflated, it would be pulled up snugly against either the divers torso or his tank.

Another would be some sort of very expandable wing. When I was a kid sometimes when we had water fights we would use what we called a "water weenie", which was just a piece of surgical tubing with a nozzle fitted to one end and the other end tied off. You would fill it from a hose with the right nozzle attached and the tubing would go from being maybe 1/2" thick to 2.5" thick or so as it filled with water. It would also get several times longer. A similar but larger bit of expandable tubing would certainly make for a compact and hydrodynamic wing when it wasn't inflated, particularly if it could be fitted to lie in the empty space on either side of where the tank contacts the divers back.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I don't have any particular idea which way it would go and don't particularly care beyond a cursory interest.

So again guessing, you seem to be saying that even though "your experience" is that every BP/W BC you have used has felt superior in streamlining compared to every Vest BC you have used you are unsure that a scientific test would verify your feelings.

Basically because if it works out that BCs are more streamlined it would not change my choice in gear because it would not agree with what I find comfortable. There are a number of other reasons why I like BP/W over BCs beyond streamlining.

So again filling in the blanks, if Vest BC's turn out to be more streamlined than BP/W BC's, you would not change your choice of gear. Thank goodness; I was really worried you might go out and buy a 10 year old SeaQuest Vest BC off eBay because of a MythBusters episode.

I have NOT been trying to change your preference on dive gear, or anyone's preference on dive gear. I am just trying to get a "real" answer to the question of which style BC is the most streamlined.

Since you are the SB member who has pretty much made the superior streamlining statement more than any other SB member (at least recently), I thought we could have this "flame out" on the Discovery forum so as to attract interest in them testing streamlining.

 

[Sas]

So again guessing, you seem to be saying that even though "your experience" is that every BP/W BC you have used has felt superior in streamlining compared to every Vest BC you have used you are unsure that a scientific test would verify your feelings.

When I made that quote it was not in the context of scientific experiments so no, that is not what I meant.

All I was saying I personally found all the BP/Ws better than all the BCs I have tried for ME. You're overcomplicating what I said.

So again filling in the blanks, if Vest BC's turn out to be more streamlined than BP/W BC's, you would not change your choice of gear. Thank goodness; I was really worried you might go out and buy a 10 year old SeaQuest Vest BC off eBay because of a MythBusters episode.

If I ever try a SeaQuest Vest BC though, and I like it more than BP/Ws I would switch to it. Actually I often try new gear, just to see if I can improve on what I have now. But a scientific experiment would not change my mind about gear choices.

I have NOT been trying to change your preference on dive gear, or anyone's preference on dive gear. I am just trying to get a "real" answer to the question of which style BC is the most streamlined.

Fair enough.

Since you are the SB member who has pretty much made the superior streamlining statement more than any other SB member (at least recently), I thought we could have this "flame out" on the Discovery forum so as to attract interest in them testing streamlining.

Only in regards to my own experience though (as I have said here, and also in the other thread). And I only kept responding to try to help you understand what I was actually saying, not what you thought I was saying. I have no idea whether it would be universally applicable (though amongst all my buddy group the overwhelming consensus is in the BP/Ws favour) so don't think there is much to discuss. I responded initially in this thread to explain something to another user about weighting, not the original topic and would have left it there if not for the fact you brought up a quote I had made in another thread that I wanted to clear up for you.

I'd really rather not join another forum, I have many I participate in already

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

elmer fudd, If we look at my exact wording both in this thread and in the Discovery forum thread, the question is which "well designed" BC is more streamlined; a well designed Vest, a well designed BI or a well designed BP/W?

The reason for wanting answers to this question is that in every Vest vs BP/W thread, some BP/W proponents claim BP/W's are more streamlined than Vest's, yet they can not prove it so then when asked for proof they say "I don't need proof, I know what I feel."

That is a really weak argument and I would like to eliminate it all together, replacing it with fact.

Arguing about it here is not getting us anywhere, as usual. Not helping me get MythBusters to look at this subject means we will continue to argue to nowhere every time the subject comes up. I thought we could evolve, but I am probably wrong. :depressed:

 

[Sas]

That is a really weak argument and I would like to eliminate it all together, replacing it with fact.

It's not an argument though. It's a description of how one experiences gear...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It's not an argument though. It's a description of how one experiences gear...

stream·lined
ADJECTIVE:
-Designed or arranged to offer the least resistance to fluid flow.
-Reduced to essentials; lacking anything extra.
-Effectively organized or simplified: a streamlined method of production.
-Having flowing, graceful lines; sleek: a streamlined convertible.
-Improved in appearance or efficiency; modernized.

Booo, don't take away my fun! Can never argue too much about BP/Ws and BCs

If one kind of BC is more streamlined than another it is most definitly NOT a description of how one "experiences" gear! It means it has less resistance when being used.

If we compare our experience of riding in a tractor trailer rig traveling at 60 mph to riding in a Ferrari at 60 mph to riding in a go cart at 60 mph, riding in a go cart at 60 mph is ca-ca in the panties time. Perspective is different due to the differing heights above the roadway and the differing mass of the vehicles. It would be highly unlikely that one could accurately guess the speed of travel correctly in three such different vehicles.

You seem to want it all YOUR way; you evidently want to use words however you like no matter their real meaning, you want to argue about BP/W's and BC's but then not call it arguing and you don't want to help find out real answers probably because then you might be proven wrong.

I tried to initiate an SB field trip, which did not even require us to get up from the computer desk, but most seem to WANT to just hide here and argue by anectotaly opining instead of actually learning something.

 

[Sas]

If one kind of BC is more streamlined than another it is most definitly NOT a description of how one "experiences" gear! It means it has less resistance when being used.

You are ignoring the whole package though and how gear suits people. How it sits on them, how they set it up, the way they sit in the water, how they move around and so on. Whichever way your experiment works out (even if it shows BP/Ws to be more streamlined) I don't think it has much relevance. You can't hold everything fixed and then expect the results to apply beyond the experimental conditions.

You seem to want it all YOUR way;

Yes it is nice to have things my way. Why would I want things not to be done my way?

you evidently want to use words however you like no matter their real meaning, you want to argue about BP/W's and BC's but then not call it arguing and you don't want to help find out real answers probably because then you might be proven wrong.

My comment was a joke regarding the arguments though I do like to argue. However I don't like to argue with other people on how they experience gear as I have no idea, that's something decided by the person using the gear. I will argue though, when people tell me my experience with something is wrong.

Also the meaning of words is malleable and changes in various contexts. I have been quite clear with my meaning within the relevant contexts though and I am at a loss to explain why you have so much trouble understanding what I am saying. However, you have questioned me on my meanings at times and I have clarified them to you, there's not a lot more I can do. You have disagreed with me when I have told you exactly what I meant saying that I don't mean that, so what is the point of explaining in more detail if you are going to tell me I am meaning something different?

I tried to initiate an SB field trip, which did not even require us to get up from the computer desk, but most seem to WANT to just hide here and argue by anectotaly opining instead of actually learning something.

Getting up from my computer desk requires too much energy and I don't want to be involved because you are arguing a point I did not make so I don't care about the outcome a great deal... not enough to be involved anyway. But I think you think I did make that point - that everyone will find streamlining better in a BP/W. I have not said that, only that I have found it so. It's like the results from paddle v splits experiments - you can't control all the factors anyway and even when you come up with results people experience this equipment differently.

Remember, I only responded to you in this thread as you quoted me and took me out of context and also disagreed with my local lingo for buoyancy devices (what would you know about that anyway?), not because I wanted to discuss your experiment.

 

[FritzCat66]

They bust myths, but they also have to entertain their audience. Comparing streamlining between BC's and BP/W's would make for possibly the most yawn-inducing episode ever.

If you were to actually click on the link in my original post and if you were to actually read the thread on Discovery Forums that that link opens, you would see that one of my suggestions is to make it a Shark Week test of which BC style is best when fleeing sharks.

The thing is, I actually did read the description first... sorry, man. :dozingoff:

 

[Walter]

we are talking about claiming BP/W's are more streamlined than Vest BC's.

Which BP/wing and which vest?

Well I am the one that said it so I know what meaning it carried. Bit presumptuous of you to tell me what I meant don't you think?

Did you notice he was referring not to how you meant it, but how it was received?

In order to present as small a profile as possible, a deflated BC should either collapse to minuscule proportions or lie completely flat against the body. About the closest thing to this is perhaps an old horse collar BC.

Check out the Scubapro Classic Sport. It lies pretty darned close to completely flat against the body.

 

[Sas]

Did you notice he was referring not to how you meant it, but how it was received?

Yes and given I have clarified this already in a past thread, I don't think he needed to bring it up again. Because it has already been explained he has no excuse for not receiving it in the way I intended even if he did not originally do so.