Help for the new guy?

[gwitek]

So now we expose the soft under belly... I learned and shot manual with my first camera, a Nik V, but it always seemed to intimidate me. I just don’t think I ever quite “got it”. When I bought the housed 90, I never looked back and of course now shooting manual mind boggles me. Can you point me to some resources to re-learn / re-adapt?

Thanks again.

Greg

 

[StevenB]

One of the most helpful tools I found for learning manual basics was Steve Fish's Underwater Simulator Program. In it he literally took photos of every speed, ap and flash level on his camera and lets you set the parameters to show what it looked like. His books are downloadable and good too.

http://www.fishtalesfilms.com/

Steve B

 

[vladimir]

I learned and shot manual with my first camera, a Nik V, but it always seemed to intimidate me. I just don’t think I ever quite “got it”.

"Getting it" is a lot easier with a digital camera because of the immediate feedback. I think if you just start shooting manual you'll be pleasantly surprised at how quickly you get better.

 

[gwitek]

gwitek, you might consider that most of us shoot our strobes at manual. Heck, when I'm shooting with a Nikonos V or a housed F4 (which can sync TTL with my strobes) I shoot manual anyway.
... deletions made...
All the best, James

OK - I admit it. Sheesh, how embarrasing, I have been shooting so long with it, I have gone completely stupid. No longer a "real" photgrapher, I am relegated to the front row to study again.

I received my new Aquatica D70 and as promised, the YS-120's do not TTL. Okay, I am ready to shoot manually. But I need a primer / study materials. Any suggestions?

An immediate puzzler (at least for me)... I shoot a lot of macro and stopped down to the max and with the strobes on 1/2 and I am WAY over exposing. I have to crank the sutter to 4000 to get a decent pic. Okay, that is on the bench, but the same basic prob will exist uw. Do I move to meesing with ASA? Man, I am spinning.

TIA
Greg

 

[f3nikon]

This worked for me.


Originally Posted by Eya

Same for me...
I've bought 5 or 6 books about photography and UW photography as well and I found them very useful. At least to understand theory. The point is managing all those settings in a matter of seconds when we're down there.
Personally speaking I've excluded aperture (that I keep fixed to f.8 to increase DoF) and ISO (80 when the subject's close and strobes illuminate it, 200/400 when using ambient light only). Speed: well ...its value affects only the background's colour.. but if you shoot the right way (that's aiming to the surface everytime and including the sun in one of the picture's corners) you can set the right speed by metering the sun itself and setting a central metering mode.
Once you've done it you will be shooting without any concerns about speed and you can focus on the strobe. Than the only factor I consider is the distance from the subject, and subject's or background colour.
It takes practice, but I guess you won't have to struggle against 25 settings every shoot you're taking.

Ciao

Now I finally get it, its information Overload! You bring up a very good point! Let us get back to the basics of exposure, are we in agreement that the correct shutter speed plus the correct aperture opening equals the correct exposure? Yes? There are, for the most part, two sources of light in UW photography, the open water (background) and the strobe (foreground).

The background light can be controlled by the shutter and aperture. The foreground light should only be controlled by the strobe and aperture openings.

So to make life simple, let the camera's metering system take care of the background, by setting the camera to "aperture priority mode" or "A" mode, meaning that the photographer will adjust the aperture openings and the camera will follow by adjusting the shutter to get the correct exposure. No more background exposure (in general) to worry about!

Step 2: lets "fix" ISO or film speed, set to the lowest setting possible (64, 80 or 100?) and leave it at that setting until you find a good reason to change.

Now for the more important part of the picture, the foreground. Strobes, fix the output of the strobes to half power, better still to use diffusers to spread the light. This will be one less item to think about.

All we have left to control for exposure is the aperature opening. Which we will calibrate until we are blue in the face. With the camera two feet from the main subject, start taking flash pictures using all the camera's aperture openings:

f1.8 f2.0 f2.3 f2.6 f2.8 f3.2 f3.6 f4.0 f4.5 f5.0 f5.6 f6.3 f7.0 f8.0

Note: have enough background light to keep the shutter speed stay ABOVE 1/15 sec. (min. hand holding speed) if shooting macro, without any open water background, the strobe and aperture is the main source of light control, fix your shutter to about 1/60 sec. at full manual mode.

Download the test shots to a PC or Mac and pick out the best exposure at 2 feet, note and mark down the aperture opening. Look at the same picture from the camera's LCD display, is the exposure the same? If not, find out and correct the problem, the camera's LCD is most important because that is your main source of feedback when taking the pictures.

I started at 2 feet to stress the fact that we must shoot at closer distances. As you change the distance from your subject you should also change the aperture openings. Getting closer also helps in the auto focusing.

Use the correct aperture opening for the set distances and take more pictures that are lighter or darker than the first shot, by adjusting the aperture opening this is called bracketing.

Now all you have left are focusing and composition. All these are just guidelines, always experiment with different settings.

Note: On the depth of field issue, lets set that aside for now. Its not important until you start shooting in macro (DoF is very narrow in macro shooting), but in macro you will be shooting with smaller aperture openings, because as you get closer to your subject the amount of light increases (the strobe is getting closer). So you will be using f8.0 anyway.

Dive Safe
__________________

 

[fdog]

<snip>An immediate puzzler (at least for me)... I shoot a lot of macro and stopped down to the max and with the strobes on 1/2 and I am WAY over exposing. I have to crank the sutter to 4000 to get a decent pic. Okay, that is on the bench, but the same basic prob will exist uw. Do I move to meesing with ASA? Man, I am spinning.

TIA
Greg

Greg, you don't say what lens this is with. The first thing I'd check is that it actually stops down. Remove the lens, set to f22 and jiggle the aperture activation lever on the lens. A failure here has happened to me once during a dive trip.

If this works, or it's a lens with no manual aperture ring, attach to body and set to f22. Activate the Depth of Field preview. If the viewfinder goes dark, this confirms correct operation.

There are some metering/aperture issues with non-cpu lenses, and that might be the problem. Confirm correct operation by shooting in manual, no strobes, and varying the aperture.

If all the above points to correct operation in the camera, my next guess would be that the strobes are just too powerful because they are out of the water. I'd try draping a layer or two of white garbage bag plastic over the strobe and see if that helps. This sounds like the issue, mostly because you get results at high shutter speeds. The strobe pulse of a YS120 is in the range of 1/1000 sec when at full power, so really high shutter speeds would only give you a fraction of this light.

Hope this helps!

All the best, James

 

[gwitek]

Greg, you don't say what lens this is with.
...portions deleted...
All the best, James

Yup, you're right. I was spinning a bit. For the testing, I've a D70 in an Aquatica D70 housing with two YS-120's and a 60MM Nikkor D. Everything works fine mechanicaly. I can take non-strobe pics fine (as you suggest). Lens stops down fine. And I CAN get the pics to darken to viewable images with very high shutter speeds. I am just freaking out a bit over the trial-and-error nature of the beast (shooting manual flash).
It sounds however, like this is the way it's done.

I can live with it. I want to be comfortable with the set up before the expensive water time in May on Cooper Island so I have been bench-shooting. I have pool time scheduled next week when I will do some wide-range braketing like suggested above. I am shooting macro here, so my vision of the process is... (1) start with a known strobe distance and 1/2 power, (2) choose a slow "film speed" like 60-ish, (3) try each aperature (starting small) with something like 60 or 90 shutter.

Where I could use help is, if I am still overexposed at max stop-down, do I go to ISO or shutter speed next?

And that point about the YS flash duration being like 1 ms (1/1000) and the shutter being able to get down to 1/2000th, 1/4000th, or 1/8000 is cool. Does this mean what I think? Instead of the strobe only firing during a small part of the shutter's opening duration like normal, the strobe would be firing longer than the shutter was open - creating what the shutter would see as consistent, almost ambient, light? Or is flash sync an issue here?

Thanks!
Greg

 

[DesertEagle]

Do you have diffusers for the strobes? Another option is to move the strobes further back.

I found the Nikonos very easy. All you have are aperture, focus and shutter speed to worry about. I standardized on 100 speed for wide angle and quickly learned what to expect. Now with digital, there are so many settings. But the instant feedback is what makes the difference.

I have seen many 11 x 14 inch prints from the D70 and D100. They look just as good as anything from film. I'm including cibachrome prints too. My local Fuji minilab has Fuji Supergloss paper. It's like instant cibachome!

 

[ssra30]

Unfortunately your YS120 only has 2 power setting which is a bit inconvenient for manual shooting. I usually leave my D70 ISO at 200 since that's the lowest you can go. You only pretty much have only aparture and shutterspeed to play with. You should be able to fire at any shutterspeed that you like. With my Ikelite DS-125, I usually have to strobe power somewhere around 1/2-1/4, ISO 200, F18-F22 (with 70-180mm macro lens so I would usually be a bit further away from the subject in comparison to your 60mm), shutterspeed 1/100-1/250 s.
Since your YS-120 is quite powerful and have very rough power adjustment, it might be easier to use 105mm and give you a bit more working distance than the 60mm which usually bring you very close to the subject.

 

[gwitek]

I do have a 105 and actually prefer it. So, the extra subject-to-film distance, diffusers on the strobes, a tiny app, and fast shutter, and I've got it! Yeah, right.

Thank you to all who have replied!

If I read between the lines in all these, I hear "trial-and-error is the key" and "point-and-shoot is for sissies"!

The instant-feedback-and-try again will probebly be awesome - for all but the skiterry one-shot subjects.

Thanks again!