(Help) Cold in new shell drysuit - do I need more weight?

[Tim_Barker]

My wife and I dive the same waters and almost the same config (including the undergarments). I am usually toasty and she gets cold for the second dive. We used to wear fleece and IMO I was warmer then. I almost always keep some air in the dry suit so no squeeze.

 

[Walter]

Don's some people dive with neoprene under their dry? Have anyone done this, and what is the advantage and disadvantages? I can see the advantage that you can still have some thermal protection if you have a massive flood...

Wetsuits under dry suits were common decades ago, but not with the high quality dry suits now available.

 

[paulwlee]

Don's some people dive with neoprene under their dry? Have anyone done this, and what is the advantage and disadvantages? I can see the advantage that you can still have some thermal protection if you have a massive flood...

I've never done it, but just reasoning theoretically, this would obviate many of the drysuit's advantages. One of the major advantages of a drysuit is that you can maintain the same loft in the undergarment as you go deeper, hence you have no difference in insulation regardless of the depth, whereas with a wetsuit, you progressively lose insulation due to the compression of neoprene.
If you put neoprene under the drysuit, it will be suject to the same ambient pressure as if you were wearing it outside, and will compress to the same extent.

This would be somewhat similar to wearing a neoprene drysuit, with its disadvantages.
Buoyancy change with depth, and the concomitant change in insulation with depth.
But since you have the shell suit, you get none of the advantages of the neoprene drysuit, such as the stretchiness, more streamlining, and lower cost.
In other words, not a good idea.

 

[TSandM]

I have wondered about battery powered warmth as well. Has anyone tried it?

Yes, and I recently reviewed my heated vest. Although I'm having a little trouble with the controller at present, if the company comes through nicely on that, I'd still recommend the product highly.

 

[muddiver]

What type of head protection are you wearing? Do you wear wet suit or dry gloves? Believe it or not if you get some dry gloves and either a dry hood or really thick neoprene gloves you might dotice a difference in how cold you get. Also beef up the socks. I wear wool hicking socks over thick cotton with a thin wicking sock underneath. The head, hands, and feet are where the most heat is lost by divers.

Also, you could pick up a realy good Viking undergarment on ebay. I have the artic model and it makes me sweat in 50 deg. F water.

 

[CompuDude]

I've never done it, but just reasoning theoretically, this would obviate many of the drysuit's advantages. One of the major advantages of a drysuit is that you can maintain the same loft in the undergarment as you go deeper, hence you have no difference in insulation regardless of the depth, whereas with a wetsuit, you progressively lose insulation due to the compression of neoprene.
If you put neoprene under the drysuit, it will be suject to the same ambient pressure as if you were wearing it outside, and will compress to the same extent.

This would be somewhat similar to wearing a neoprene drysuit, with its disadvantages.
Buoyancy change with depth, and the concomitant change in insulation with depth.
But since you have the shell suit, you get none of the advantages of the neoprene drysuit, such as the stretchiness, more streamlining, and lower cost.
In other words, not a good idea.

Plus you sweat like crazy and smell like a locker room. Seems like a good idea at first glance, but quickly falls apart on closer inspection.

 

[dave4868]

Folks,

I have recently moved from a warm and toasty neoprene drysuit to a shell drysuit. Now I am getting cold on my dives and I am in the process of figuring out how to get warm again. I dive in Vancouver (British Columbia) waters, which normally range from 7.2°C (45°F) to 8.3°C (47°F), and my dives average 45 minutes to an average max depth of 90 feet.

I specifically want to know if I need to use more weight to allow for more air in my suit when I am between 30 feet and the surface? Currently, I am weighted such that my BCD and drysuit are both completely empty between these depths. I also have a fair amount of suit squeeze. Would more air in my suit keep me warmer? I seem to be warm at the deeper parts of the dive then cold near the end when I get shallower. Note that I have enough weight (36 pounds) to safely stop just below the surface (~3-5 feet) with ~300psi in my tank. Would I be getting cold because there is no air in my suit at shallow depths (rather than too few undergarments)?

Additional Information on Drysuit(s):
- New Suit: Whites Catalyst Self-Entry (with drygloves); undergarments: Whites MK2 and MK1, 1 layer of wool/synthetic socks, and 3mm neoprene soft boot
- Old Neoprene Suit: 7mm Oceaner back entry (with drygloves); undergarments: fleece pants and top, synthetic long underwear, and 1 layer of wool/synthetic socks

I am also open to other suggestions on how to stay warm in a shell suit? However, at this time I am not considering Argon for drysuit inflation or replacing my current undergarments (e.g. no Weasel).

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,
Nairn

Hey Nairn,

In the insulation you described, for those conditions, I'd be cold, too.

I don't like to blow my own horn, but if there's one thing I've got tweaked pretty well, it's staying warm in my shell drysuit. Wimpiness is the mother of invention!

With my winter setup, I'm warm in water temps down to the 30's F (below 5 C) for as long as a couple hours. I'm not talking about just surviving the cold; I mean feeling comfortably warm, until the last few minutes of those long dives.

Essentially, I do the following:

• avoid constriction of the extremities (wearing a roomy suit, boots and drygloves)
• increase the amount of insulation, including a fleece "chest pad"
• use about 5 lbs more weight than the minimum
• use drygloves with two liners
• use an extra 2mm neoprene "ice cap" hood under my 7mm hood

Here are the specific details of my setup:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2603629&postcount=12

Yes, I think you're right, to be warmer, aside from possibly needing more insulation, I think you need more air in the suit than the minimum with an empty tank.

That means more weight.

Since I get cold easily and my typical dives are long and not very active, I need more undergarments than most people.

The kind of warmth I achieve means I rarely have to shorten a dive for feeling cold or losing dexterity, etc.

It's the kind of warmth that makes me feel as comfortable as in my living room. Seriously.

Experiment with some of the ideas from the knowledgable people here and you'll find a warmer combination, I'm sure.

Good luck!

Dave C