Have training standards "slipped"?

[bookboarder]

Nichole,

After you have been diving for a little longer, you will see that there is a variation in what students receive from each agency.

Go dive! And take AOW when you feel ready to expand your knowledge/experience base!

Thanks. Definitely planning on doing both & rescue.

 

[The Chairman]

I learned via a NAUI instructor and we did do the buddy breathing to the surface in all of our buddy breathing drills. :huh:

Buddy breathing or breathing on your buddy's octo? Buddy breathing is where you take turns breathing on just one second stage. The protocol that NAUI wants us to teach, is to donate your octo (safe second) and then to ascend. This way each of you is breathing on different first stages that are connected to the same tank.

 

[Thalassamania]

Try reading it. Contrary to what you THINK it says, I am actually allowed to disagree with you, and even to say that some of your protocols are dangerous.

You've got every right to disagree. But as I said in my PM:

Disagree all you want, I have no problem with that, but, "You can claim you are the super instructor all you want, but all I see is elitism." is way out of line.

You should set a better example.

Teaching others to dive to 200fsw on air just boggles my imagination. Thank GOODNESS most agencies have moved away from this kind of fool hardy, adrenaline driven mentality. If this is how standards have "slipped", then HALLELUJAH! They apparently need to slip some more..

to qualify to 200 feet a diver has to not only complete a 100 hour, 12 dive training program but then must progress to each depth level after successfully completing the required dives for the previous level. When dives are planned and executed under close supervision of a diver certified to this depth, with the knowledge and permission of the DSO, a diver may exceed their depth limit by one step.

• Certification to 30 Foot Depth - Initial level, approved upon the successful completion of 100 hour course.
• Certification to 60 Foot Depth - A diver holding a 30 foot certificate may be certified to a depth of 60 feet after successfully completing, under supervision, 12 logged training dives to depths between 31 and 60 feet, for a minimum total time of 4 hours.
• Certification to 100 Foot Depth - A diver holding a 60 foot certificate may be certified to a depth of 100 feet after successfully completing, under supervision, 12 dives to depths between 61 and 100 feet. The diver shall also demonstrate proficiency in the use of the appropriate Dive Tables.
• Certification to 130 Foot Depth - A diver holding a 100 foot certificate may be certified to a depth of 130 feet after successfully completing, under supervision, 4 dives to depths between 100 and 130 feet. The diver shall also demonstrate proficiency in the use of the appropriate Dive Tables.
• Certification to 150 Foot Depth - A diver holding a 130 foot certificate may be certified to a depth of 150 feet after successfully completing, under supervision, 4 dives to depths between 130 and 150 feet. The diver must also demonstrate knowledge of the special problems of deep diving, and of special safety requirements.
• Certification to 200 Foot Depth - A diver holding a 150 foot certificate may be certified to a depth of 190 feet after successfully completing, under supervision, 4 dives to depths between 150 and 190 feet. The diver must also demonstrate knowledge of the special problems of deep diving, and of special safety requirements.

Additionally all divers are medically qualified and all dive plans below 150 feet are approved by the Diving Control Board on a dive by dive basis. Use of alternate inert gas mixtures to limit narcosis is encouraged for depths greater than 150 feet.

These procedures are the consensus of many of the best minds and most experienced divers that there are, folks who have, and can, dedicate all of their time to diving, ... but you do have the right to second guess their collective wisdom and ridicule them if you so choose.

Contrary to what some would have you to believe, we DON'T have to make diving a second career in order to enjoy it. Learn what you need to be comfortable in the environment you will be diving in. You just don't need to sacrifice a huge amount of time to becoming a safe diver. If the adrenaline rush is what you're after, then there are PLENTY of instructors who are able to over complicate the simplest of skills and push you to the limit of endurance and task loading.

What I know is quite simple, and is born out by the facts ... divers trained this way have a long history of diving without fatal accidents. What you seem to believe is that something less is perfectly acceptable, dispite the fact that people die, in the name of shorter courses. That's where we part company.

But please make your case honestly. Not with inapplicable stereotypes. I'm no militarist or adrenaline junky ... if I were, no DSO or DCB would ever had considered clearing me for even a 30 foot card, and many have cleared me for much deeper than that.

 

[bookboarder]

Buddy breathing or breathing on your buddy's octo? Buddy breathing is where you take turns breathing on just one second stage. The protocol that NAUI wants us to teach, is to donate your octo (safe second) and then to ascend. This way each of you is breathing on different first stages that are connected to the same tank.

We were using one second stage and sharing it, one person slowly breathing out bubbles while the other breathes through the shared second stage whilst continuing a controlled ascent.

ETA: And, passing the regulator back and forth whilst doing the ascent.

ETAA: Also, person who has the air supply maintaining control of the regulator while passing back and forth.

 

[Hemlon]

Thal,

To be so "experienced", you seem terribly angry just because someone disagrees with you.

And I have yet to see where you have shown data to support your "no fatalities" stance.

 

[tep]

Thalassamania: What agency is that, specifically?

Again, this seems to be reenforcing the idea that we've moved away from "one hard to get certification for ALL diving" to a graded set of certifications designed to allow a reasonable progression in diving envelope as skills are progressively demonstrated.

Based on Thalassamania's post, that seems to be the extreme case. You can't go below 30 ft with the most basic cert, as opposed to yesteryear's one big cert - go dive however you like.

Again, this seems to be a case of standards changing, not slipping.

 

[The Chairman]

I have made my case. Diving on air to 200 ft is dangerous and should not be encouraged. This is the realm of the adrenaline junky. You can have it as I have no need for it.

What's with the "z" behind my name in your quote? If it is some kind of slight, I surely don't get it.

 

[Hemlon]

Netdoc,

I wondered about the "Z" also. Maybe it's your new rapper name.

NetDocZ is in da house!

 

[Thalassamania]

I have made my case. Diving on air to 200 ft is dangerous and should not be encouraged. This is the realm of the adrenaline junky. You can have it as I have no need for it.

You've made no case, you've made a claim with no support, just some lie about "adrenaline junkies." I never dive for "thrills."

What's with he "z" behind my name in your quote? If it is some kind of slight, I surely don't get it.

Not intended, bad keyboard and screwed up global change, sorry.

 

[jeckyll]

Cookies??? Now, I'm interested....

(no cookie smilie ... we need one ).

Plus, there is this mistaken impression that everyone on the 'dark side' wears black, and I look good in black ...