Have training standards "slipped"?

[The Chairman]

I learned today that my son, doing SDI, would not be taught dive tables because they use compters. Problem is, after then second open pool session, they still had not been taught the computers! saving that for open water!!!!!

I do this in the classroom, BEFORE they get into the water. Don't blame the standards here.

But this is a GREAT point. Why teach tables at all? They are only needed by a small percentage of tech divers and yet most agencies, as well as old time instructors consider them the Holy Grail of diving. We've covered this before, but there is no standard that is five years or older that even requires the student to be able to use this tool. I think SDI did some wonderful groundwork to UPDATE the dinosaurian attitudes towards tables. I found out that I CAN teach a NAUI class without tables under certain conditions. I meet those conditions and eschew tables. That's like forcing modern physicists to use sliderules instead of calculators.

 

[DivingsInMyBlood]

Chris, I wasn't offended, I was merely pointing out at one point you were tossing out the walk to school claim that people who think some standards are inadequate are full of crap, then you expressed you think SDI's standards are inadequate and someone could toss the walk to school thing back at you. I agree with you that two days is too short and that all divers should learn to use tables. SDI disagrees with us, and other agencies are likely to follow their lead.

While I am not offended, I do believe the "walk to school" comments are the last resort of folks who cannot support their position with logical points. There's no value in such statements.

Point taken matey

 

[TheRedHead]

But this is a GREAT point. Why teach tables at all? .

What if your computer fails at a remote dive location and you can't rent another one? Then you wouldn't be able to dive at all. :shakehead

 

[D_B]

Just wondering how those "instructors" could not know that buoyancy control is not "bounce and crawl" and teach students that it is OK to swim like that .. to pass students that can't control there buoyancy even roughly (I know, I know .. the instructors were trained by those that did not, and now they do not .. but how can they not realize it's not OK to dive that way?)
.. irregardless of any srandards, bottom line is they have an obligation to pass only those that are safe to dive

... yeah .. sure to be followed by many posts on the lack of gas planning

 

[tonka97]

What if your computer fails at a remote dive location and you can't rent another one? Then you wouldn't be able to dive at all. :shakehead

Use your back-up computer.

Then dive at all.

 

[Walter]

.. irregardless of any srandards, bottom line is they have an obligation to pass only those that are safe to dive

I agree, (except for irregardless, the word is regardless) but the standards of at least one agency do not allow this. If standards were met, you have to certify. Other agencies (NAUI & YMCA are a couple examples) allow you to with hold certification if the diver is not safe, even if the letter of their higher standards are met.

 

[TheRedHead]

Use your back-up computer.

Then dive at all.

That's an old argument and one I used to make myself. I dived for quite a while after certification on tables. I can now plan a dive without a computer or tables using minimum deco. But your average diver doesn't have 2 computers, but they may have their tables in their dive log from OW class.

Nice fins.

 

[The Chairman]

But your average diver doesn't have 2 computers, but they may have their tables in their dive log from OW class.

The "average" dive destination probably has a computer for rent. If you are dumping a TON of money into a vacation, then a battery and an extra computer might be of value.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Hmm...
A 20ish minute lecture on how dive tables came about
A little longer explaining how to use the tables and do a few examples
Doing some homework

Is that so much to ask of your students? Dive tables are maybe 4th grade level. Makes good sense to me to study how we got to where we are today.

Just seems like laziness on the part of the instructor to not teach tables. If you teach tables and the students understand how they were developed and what they truly mean, then you shouldn't have to teach them how to use a computer. Tell them to go read the manual...it's self explanatory if they understand tables.

 

[Hank49]

The "average" dive destination probably has a computer for rent. If you are dumping a TON of money into a vacation, then a battery and an extra computer might be of value.

I'm not real savvy with computers. Can you manually add in RN to a computer? If you can't, the computer in the shop wouldn't do much good if you had been doing 4 dives per day and it was sitting in the shop....unless you take a full day off of diving to get back to 0 RN.