Handling sea critters in Hawaii

[Jai Bar]

Spoken like a true PADI Professional... Now use some abstract thought here and look at my last post. How is being underwater make any of that different?

As far as your explanations, give me one... but please leave out the "mucous membrane" myth and that it causes stress to the animal. The octopus will forget about it, but if you now want to give animals human emotions, think about an octopus' relief that it got away.

I am not speaking specifically about octopusses. I think in a more general way, divers should avoid touching any fish or creature regardless if is because of mucouse myth or whatever. Our understanding of sea life is way less than we think, we really don't know too much about most of the creatures of the seas. For the octopus example, do you really know how many consequent times it can use the ink jets? How much it costs to him each ink cloud (in terms of energy/food). Will it affect its survival? What about other species?

Is it OK to blow puffer fishes? Force spanish dancers to 'dance"? What harm will it make, huh? It is cool, who cares if she was just busy lying her eggs. So, enjoy now, tomorrow we'll have less...

It is sooo coool to feed Napoleons with eggs, who the heck cares for the colesterol in their blood? Perhaps fish do not suffer from eating eggs, but it can still kill them even when divers really had good intentions of "just having fun". One of the more famous Napoleons in Sharm El Sheikh was really fat and huge. It also "liked" divers and approached them to see if they bring him gifts. One diver thought it is a good idea to bring a plastic bag full of eggs so each diver in the group gets a change to feed the giant. The fish had other plans, however. He just went for the whole bag, snatched it from the diver and the plastic stuck in its gills, drowning the poor fish. How ironic, so sad.

One may say "who cares" it will be eaten anyway, what's the difference if today because of our actions or tomorrow because it only lives blah blah blah amount of days? For me, I'd like to see that octopus tomorrow too, and if possible- also after that. Some octopusses live for many years and it is nice to meet familiar faces/friends in every dive :10:

And as for the instructor- still should be an example. Perhaps some things are "OK" but not all divers have enough knowledge to judge what is good and what is bad regarding interactions with sea life. Thus, better teach to touch nothing, leave only bubbles :05:

 

[fishb0y]

And as for the instructor- still should be an example. Perhaps some things are "OK" but not all divers have enough knowledge to judge what is good and what is bad regarding interactions with sea life. Thus, better teach to touch nothing, leave only bubbles :05:

And here we go again... I was waiting for the famous "take only pictures, leave only bubbles" stuff.

As an instructor, you should be educated enough for your area. As an instructor in Hawaii, if your students don't know about cone snails or a COT, then you are sending your students out looking for trouble. To say an instructor isn't doing their job is a cope-out.

I am not saying to go out and touch away... you just need to use your head. BTW, when was the last time you threw some bread to a seagull?

 

[isurus]

I think the dive guides just do this little pony show for tips.

which is interesting because for me and others I dive with this is one of the few things a guide can do which will instantly lose their tip.

 

[fishb0y]

Coming from experience, for every 1 person who wouldn't tip me because of that, I would say at least 20 would tell me that was their most memorable experience diving. Which do you think is healthier for the environment now?

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

which is interesting because for me and others I dive with this is one of the few things a guide can do which will instantly lose their tip.

Exactly...and I usually express my thoughts with an official underwater hand signal.

fishb0y - I don't participate in any of the activities you mentioned. Some of us don't need to pick flowers to enjoy them. I try to enjoy the environment I am in while impacting it as little as possible, whatever that environment may be. To be sure, I impact the dive site every time I dive. But not as much as you do intentionally grabbing critters. Not trying to criticize you, but I do see it differently, despite whatever traditions there may be in Hawaii. When I dive in Hawaii, I make a point to go out with operations that have a no-touch policy if at all possible. I just don't support such activities.

Lastly, fear and stress are not emotions limited to humans. Many animals, and certainly octopi, can experience fear and stress. It's part of their survival instincts. I frankly can't understand why it would bring any diver happiness to know they had caused fear and stress in a marine animal.

YMMV.

 

[Cacia]

agree! I am not one of the people that has a heart attack if you touch something a "bit" and I dive with guys that spear....still, I just would rather not see the octopus get yanked out for no reason. The only reason I brought this up, is that I think more and more people are feeling like they would just as soon the DM or Instructor did not yank them out of their hole (where they could be nesting) it is just plain tacky, frankly. Hey if you want to eat one...go ahead but that is different than the little pony show aimed for the lowest common denominator among us. It just isn't that cool if it is just for amusement. I mean, do you want your kids going around dumping baby birds out of their nests? It is just stupid and pointless. I think [people should just not look and swim the other way. Half the time the guys come up and put the thing on me even when I don't want it. Just leave stuff alone unless you are hungry for god's sake, what is so hard about that?

I don't agree that 9 people out of 10 want to tip for that...I think most people are thinking "wow, this guy is an uneducated unenlightened jerk and he must really be desperate for money". Then, they go along with it, the whole time thinking they wish he would amuse himself some other way.

Do a poll, and ask, how many people feel all warm and fuzzy to be in the ocean watching that. I have good friends that do it, I just think it is very inept.

Their most memorable experience diving? are you kidding me? Maybe it is the people you are diving with maybe?

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Coming from experience, for every 1 person who wouldn't tip me because of that, I would say at least 20 would tell me that was their most memorable experience diving. Which do you think is healthier for the environment now?

If you determine what are environmentally sound practices by taking a survey of the public, you'll end up with some pretty unsound environmental practices. I imagine you know this, but just because Joe Q Public likes looking at the octopus, it doesn't mean that grabbing an octopus is harmless to the creature. It just doesn't follow...

And Joe Q Public is almost certainly looking to you to set an example of what is a harmless way to interact with the ocean. IMO, authority figures such as yourself should set a hands-off example. Just my opinion. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. Just illustrating another point of view.

 

[gangrel441]

And here we go again... I was waiting for the famous "take only pictures, leave only bubbles" BS...

As an instructor, you should be educated enough for your area. As an instructor in Hawaii, if your students don't know about cone snails or a COT, then you are sending your students out looking for trouble. To say an instructor isn't doing their job is a cope-out.

I am not saying to go out and touch away... you just need to use your head. BTW, when was the last time you threw some bread to a seagull?

Of course, the divers don't need to worry about touching COT or cone snails or fireworms if they just don't touch anything...

I (and I believe many others here) have no problem with divers taking (within the boundaries of the law) what they plan to eat. I have only a small problem with gentle handling of creatures that divers have no intention of taking (for food or otherwise). I have no problem whatsoever with the not-so-gentle handling of creatures that have no business being there in the first place (COT in Hawaii, Lionfish in Florida). What I have an issue with is the manhandling of indigenous creatures for the entertainment of divers. Wrestling an octo out of its hole and grappling with it until it inks the place up is not exactly what I would call an environmentally conscious activity. Nor is harassing a puffer fish until it inflates for the amusement of tourist divers.

 

[fishb0y]

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. Just illustrating another point of view.

As I am...

More than once I have seen people say that they would never touch an animal underwater because it kills the animal. Lets be honest, both you and I know it is wrong.

The best answer for conservation is not isolationism, like so many people put out... Try awareness.

Sea World for example, has Orcas in captivity. Is that good for the animal, of course not but I feel the species benefits as a whole. Go to an aquarium where you are allowed to pet stingrays. Of course the stingrays with human emotions now... get bored with the same track that they swim day in and day out, but the awareness to their environment helps the species survive.

 

[gangrel441]

As I am...

More than once I have seen people say that they would never touch an animal underwater because it kills the animal. Lets be honest, both you and I know it is wrong.

In some cases, you are right, they don't die from being handled. In other cases, you are incorrect. In still other cases, the puffer fish doesn't die from being handled...he dies from having a lack of defense mechanisms when the predator happens along because some dive guide was showing him off to the tourists by inflating him, forcing him to use all that energy over a situation that wasn't really a danger to him. Sometimes the octopus doesn't die from being handled, he dies from being eaten by a predator after exhaustion has taken his ability to fight back and his ink supply has been depleated by the dive guide showing him off to the tourists.

The best answer for conservation is not isolationism, like so many people put out... Try awareness.

You know...one of the main things that has kept me coming back to diving after my first experiences is that, unlike hiking a nature trail, not only is interaction with wildlife possible underwater, but often the wildlife interacts with you! Why pick up the seabiscuit and hand him around to other divers when you already have tarpon or parrot fish or moray eels practically begging for everyone's attention? The sea star will wait patiently for the divers to come for a closer look whether you pick him up or not. But again, if done gently, I have little issue with that. Once the ink starts spurting or the puffer starts filling out, the animal is no longer a participant. He is a victim, no matter how you twist it.

Sea World for example, has Orcas in captivity. Is that good for the animal, of course not but I feel the species benefits as a whole. Go to an aquarium where you are allowed to pet stingrays. Of course the stingrays with human emotions now... get bored with the same track that they swim day in and day out, but the awareness to their environment helps the species survive.

I don't know that I would be using Sea World as an example of what is or isn't good for the environment or for any species as a whole...