Gun and Ammunition Found on Dive

[SubseaSports]

Nice find OP.
I suspect a no 1 mk3 (no rear sight on receiver).
Also, horrible pistol conversion lol.
Here, that is guaranteed jail time (if feds get involved).

FWIW the Soviets converted limited numbers of Mosin Nagant rifles down to pistols during wwll. The concept has been around for a bit.

 

[SlugLife]

Nice find OP.
I suspect a no 1 mk3 (no rear sight on receiver).
Also, horrible pistol conversion lol.
Here, that is guaranteed jail time (if feds get involved).

FWIW the Soviets converted limited numbers of Mosin Nagant rifles down to pistols during wwll. The concept has been around for a bit.

The ATF, an unelected body making laws. No vote in the house or senate. Just "we decree X is illegal." Don't get me started on the whole issue of Congress doesn't have the authority to grant someone else, powers that congress doesn't have in the first place.

 

[lowwall]

The ATF, an unelected body making laws. No vote in the house or senate. Just "we decree X is illegal." Don't get me started on the whole issue of Congress doesn't have the authority to grant someone else, powers that congress doesn't have in the first place.

What are you going on about? First, short barreled rifles are not prohibited by the federal government in the US (although state laws vary). Second, it's Congress, not the ATF, that made the law requiring the registration and payment of a transfer tax on short barreled rifles (among other things) in the National Firearms Act of 1934.

 

[SlugLife]

What are you going on about?

I'll keep it brief, since it's perhaps off topic:

For Congress to pass a law, current Congress members must vote on the law, get a majority, and have it signed off by the President of the United States. Regulatory agencies completely bypass that process. For example, a Congress in 1950 creates a regulator agency and delegates rule making power.

• The 1950 congress doesn't have power in 1952,1980, or 2022. Most of the members left office long ago. A 1950s congress can't create laws in 2022, so why should they be able to delegate power to do that?
• The laws don't actually go through the legislative process anymore. The agency decides what is legal or illegal, and that is law. No vote in the House or Senate. No veto, or signing the bill by the President. It's just law, without any vote by any currently sitting elected representative.
• People who work at the agency are government employees. They're not elected. You can't vote them out of power.

Anyway, this is getting fairly far off topic. Which laws were created by the ATF, and which laws were created by Congress is also another topic, and you're right, some gun laws are passed by congress, but I just felt like ranting about the ATF (and various other agencies).

 

[lexvil]

I'll keep it brief, since it's perhaps off topic:

For Congress to pass a law, current Congress members must vote on the law, get a majority, and have it signed off by the President of the United States. Regulatory agencies completely bypass that process. For example, a Congress in 1950 creates a regulator agency and delegates rule making power.

• The 1950 congress doesn't have power in 1952,1980, or 2022. Most of the members left office long ago. A 1950s congress can't create laws in 2022, so why should they be able to delegate power to do that?
• The laws don't actually go through the legislative process anymore. The agency decides what is legal or illegal, and that is law. No vote in the House or Senate. No veto, or signing the bill by the President. It's just law, without any vote by any currently sitting elected representative.
• People who work at the agency are government employees. They're not elected. You can't vote them out of power.

Anyway, this is getting fairly far off topic. Which laws were created by the ATF, and which laws were created by Congress is also another topic, and you're right, some gun laws are passed by congress, but I just felt like ranting about the ATF (and various other agencies).

Like the second amendment, why should a law written in 1794 applying 2022?
laws are a framework agencies work within the framework which makes the laws workable in real life, if the agents/ employees abuse the framework the elected officials can fine tune things, nothing works in absolutes and it’s not reasonable to expect the constantly rotating clowns in the clown car to have enough expertise in the complexities of operating a country of hundreds of millions of individuals to engage in such precision. It’s tantamount to having someone do brain surgery you because you once saw them perfectly apply a bandaid.

 

[lowwall]

I'll keep it brief, since it's perhaps off topic:

For Congress to pass a law, current Congress members must vote on the law, get a majority, and have it signed off by the President of the United States. Regulatory agencies completely bypass that process. For example, a Congress in 1950 creates a regulator agency and delegates rule making power.

• The 1950 congress doesn't have power in 1952,1980, or 2022. Most of the members left office long ago. A 1950s congress can't create laws in 2022, so why should they be able to delegate power to do that?
• The laws don't actually go through the legislative process anymore. The agency decides what is legal or illegal, and that is law. No vote in the House or Senate. No veto, or signing the bill by the President. It's just law, without any vote by any currently sitting elected representative.
• People who work at the agency are government employees. They're not elected. You can't vote them out of power.

Anyway, this is getting fairly far off topic. Which laws were created by the ATF, and which laws were created by Congress is also another topic, and you're right, some gun laws are passed by congress, but I just felt like ranting about the ATF (and various other agencies).

You do understand that laws don't expire at the end of each Congress? Then you will understand that a law created in 1950, or in this case in 1934, still is in effect in 1952 and 2022 unless modified or repealed by a later act of Congress or found to be unconstitutional by a federal court of law.

The rest of your post is straight ********. Regulatory agencies do not write any laws. They may enforce the laws enacted by Congress and they may turn the laws enacted by Congress into practical rules (following a lengthy process that includes public comment). For example, the National Firearms Act requires registration and a tax on the transfer of short barreled rifles. But it's the ATF that creates the actual form (ATF 5320.4), collects the tax and investigates people trying to evade either of those requirements.

I don't think anyone will argue that enacted laws are rarely models of clear and specific language, which can lead to regulations which do not correctly apply the law. Or that regulatory agencies occasionally overstep their legal bounds. But we have ways to deal with that, whether it's through court challenge or electing new legislators to rewrite the enacted laws or new Presidents to appoint new agency administrators.

 

[SlugLife]

.

.

I kicked open an off-topic and political can of worms. I'm just going to say I read both posts, and acknowledge the reasonable disagreement and am not ignoring anyone. Back to the main topic!

 

[Scared Silly]

Finding the weapon is one thing. Finding the body is a whole other thing.

 

[Bob DBF]

Finding the weapon is one thing. Finding the body is a whole other thing.

Done both, but the Corps of Engineers rangers at the lake tended to evade us after the first weapon we turned in, I guess they don't like the paperwork.

 

[CT-Rich]

I'll keep it brief, since it's perhaps off topic:

For Congress to pass a law, current Congress members must vote on the law, get a majority, and have it signed off by the President of the United States. Regulatory agencies completely bypass that process. For example, a Congress in 1950 creates a regulator agency and delegates rule making power.

• The 1950 congress doesn't have power in 1952,1980, or 2022. Most of the members left office long ago. A 1950s congress can't create laws in 2022, so why should they be able to delegate power to do that?
• The laws don't actually go through the legislative process anymore. The agency decides what is legal or illegal, and that is law. No vote in the House or Senate. No veto, or signing the bill by the President. It's just law, without any vote by any currently sitting elected representative.
• People who work at the agency are government employees. They're not elected. You can't vote them out of power.

Anyway, this is getting fairly far off topic. Which laws were created by the ATF, and which laws were created by Congress is also another topic, and you're right, some gun laws are passed by congress, but I just felt like ranting about the ATF (and various other agencies).

If gov’t worked the way you says it does, we would have hundreds of laws legislating what girls can wear to school, while still pumping raw sewage into every waterway in America. While you creative interpretation would free gun makers it would also free pretty much every polluter, manufacturer and drug company to do what ever they want. Majorly Taylor Green and Chuck Shumer have neither the expertise nor time to conceive of what regulations should govern the disposal of the chemicals wastes in the manufacture of fiberglass boat hulls.

I know it a fun fantasy to think that metal doors and teachers with guns are going solve American gun problems.

Congress has empowered others to create regulations since the federal government decided that we needed to print money and collect taxes.