Gulf of Mexico Tech Diving input

[Wookie]

We will be running some technical diving trips on the Spree next year. As we are just dipping our toe in the water (so to speak), I need help planning the trips. Thoughts I have had so far...

The boat must carry an instructor certified to teach at the level of the diving being performed for underwater liability insurance to be in effect.. I have an individual who has boldly stepped up to the plate. He is certified to teach anything NAUI/NACD, I don't know about other agencies, so anything goes, as long as it doesn't go beyond NAUI's limits (whatever those are).

If you are certified/qualified to dive it, you may do it. Dive plans must be submitted to the boat ahead of time, and be approved by a commitee of 3 tech instructors. I am not one of them. If you convince them, I will allow it.

Limited to 12 divers. It's the biggest liveaboard in this part of the gulf, but tech divers do tend to have a lot of stuff.

Price will be based on break-even the first year. Fuel will have a telling effect on price.

The questions are:
Where do we go? The Sea Searcher goes to Geyer bank, and although many of you don't believe it, Bruce and I (as well as Christine) are good friends. I don't want to crap in their part of the ocean. There are lots of other banks out there.

Should I supply the gas? I have access to a gas blending system, but I will only pump cylinders to their rated pressure. If you want overfills, you have to bring them yourself.

Can we trust rebreathers? I had two severe accidents on the Spree in 2001, 1 resulting is ongoing damage to the boat (think caustic cocktail and aluminum), the other resulted in severe DCS. Both units were dolphins, neither diver was "fully qualified", although one was a rebreather instructor.

Drifting DECO or anchored DECO

Does anyone really want to go? Do you want to go bad enough to take 2 days off of work? Is 2 days enough?

How many dives per day. My thought is 2 the first, and 1 the second, with a limited run time of 3 hours on the second day. In my conversations with rigdiver, he indicated that he understood our need to be home on time, so all divers need to be up in time for me to turnaround for sport trips the following day.

What are conditions too rough to go in? We call it off at forcasted 6' to avoid the ladder rodeo. Tech divers should be tougher than sport divers, but have more gear.

Am I being too anal? I currently know nothing about extended range, but I do know how divers get hurt/die on boats, and I'd kind of like to avoid that in the future.

Many of these questions will be answered when Melanie and I take our trimix course in Florida this fall. I thought I would see what the local community has to say. We will make it official at DEMA, but an overwhelming response might bring on more and summer trips. Let me know what you think, either here or at spree@gulf-diving.com.

We are doing this to support the tech diving community who have few choices in Texas. I am told that Rick on the UG does a great job in the eastern Gulf, I would like to try it here.

Thanks in advance for your input

Frank

 

[texdiveguy]

Hi Frank.... I was in the shop ( Surface Interval Scuba-Arlington) working today when you called and spoke with Debra regarding yours and her earlier conversations and ideas for the tech trips.....we as a shop family are supportive of the idea and future plans. Several of us as I write are in the process of attn. entry level training/certf. and skill perf. in tec diving, and this type of local trip would be of great interest to us. Many details will have to be worked out,,,,but given time and communication I think this will take place. Thanks in advance for the oppt. to at least put this on the agenda for 06' special dive trips as a possiblity. Alan

 

[cyklon_300]

Hey Frank-

Based on the recent Geyer Bank trip, tech trips can sell easily. Of the 9 tech divers on that trip, my guess is that all would sign up if you offer something.

Destination? Any place that warrants mix and has critters. Please don't impose depth restrictions, that kind of defeats the purpose of extended range diving...the 130' max limit at Geyer chafed several of us. I like the 'if you're certed you can dive it' philosophy.

Pumping gas would be good, as it would keep the amount of cylinders hauled to a minimum. Rated fills wouldn't crimp my style...most of the Geyer group were using double-Al80s anyway...

Anchored deco worked ok, don't have much experience with doing drift deco. The navigationally challenged might like it, just cruise and then blow a bag, no fuss trying to find the boat...

Rebreathers? My suggestion is to limit the trip to OC divers. I don't know any RB divers, so it won't cut out anyone I know...

Conditions? I puke when the seas are even moderate, having tech certs doesn't help there at all. Boarding the Ladders of Death with doubles and deco bottles sounds pretty adventurous...

Take time off from work? Are you kidding? I'll use any excuse to get away from the job...

Great idea and I'm sure filling spaces will be a snap.

Gregg T

 

[BigJetDriver]

Frank,

Sorry you had a bad experience with your two Draeger divers. I have been a boater for years, and know how important your investment is. I teach Inspiration pilots, and part of one of my lectures is proper "boat etiquette".

I and my friends in Houston would be interested in your tech trips, so I will be looking forward to hearing more about your plans.

My suggestion is to limit the trip to RB divers. I don't know Gregg T, so it won't cut out anyone I know...

 

[Crazyduck]

Captain Frank,
Good morning sir, great to read your post.
I have dove on both the Spree and the Fling and you provide a lot of room to regular divers plus you have a very large back deck for deco bottles, scooters and other gear.
If you split stations 2 spots for 1 diver you should more than cover any problems for space.

Deco- I have been blessed in the past with minimum currents so I would choice the boats back down lines. You might want to consider adding bars between the ropes and making it into deco station hang bars. Plus, please consider adding O2 on the hang regulator verses air. Rebreather divers might prefer an aluminum 80 tank with LP connectors so they could plug the O2 directly into their rebreathers.

Drifting Deco- that could be an emergency procedure with having multiple groups in the water. The dingy would require a diver added for extra deco gas and the divers in the water really need to tag their smb with a small slate stating their conditions and any needs. Plus, the support diver from the dingy could splash in and check on them.

Time (2 to 3 days) dependant on cost.
With the costs about doubling per diver based on space two days is probably a good starting point. Plus, if you can add some Rec/Tec divers (term here being used for divers who are boarder line recreational and technical then that would help with your costs. You would have to establish training criteria for these divers.

Pumping Gas-
If you could get the technical divers to agree on a specific trimix gas mix then you could pump it from your system into their doubles same with rebreather divers. This would reduce the gas issues on board. Basically, you would be looking at a standardized gas schedule. Trimix xx/xx. Nitrox 32, Nitrox 50, Nitrox 80, and O2 direct from the cylinder to the tank. This is just a suggestion- I am sure Bill would be good at setting up this.

Entries
I would like to see a DM at the gate and someone that is certified or the group leader for that level. For example for a rebreather diver- did he prebreathe the unit for 5 minute? With Trimix divers is mix hypoxic at the surface? Also how are they getting in their scooters? Jumping from your gate with doubles, deco tanks, and a scooter could be exciting if you hit the water the wrong way.

Exits-
Getting someone out is never any fun. You would want them to hand up their deco gas first (preferably Al40’s or maybe Al80’s.) All tanks would be required to have stage handles. Then the divers could use the stairs.

Boat crew- Please be careful with all the heavy gear. Some scooters get very heavy and extra tanks- yikes, they need to be careful not to lean out and grab things and hurt their back.

Divers make up-
Just a thought here but I would open the boat to divers that want to dive beyond recreational limits and they have to support what they are doing with prior experience.
I would be tempted to break the divers into three groups. OC divers Rec/Tec divers, OC full up technical (trimix divers) and Closed circuit divers.

IWR- This is a contentious subject and I will just stay that some divers prefer to down back down and do an IWR set before being picked up. Just something to think about.

Integrating this into your busy schedule is going to be fun. If anything you might want to consider staging this over time and do progressively more each year.

I would like to see more of the north wall at Stetson bank. Hanging at 100ft (the official floor) and wanting to go deeper…. . I am sure that you and your staff know of some great pinnacles and deep walls…

Just as a side thought- start allowing certain groups of people on boat trips to do more advanced dives. Such as folks taking Normoxic trimix classes- I would rather do my checkout dives with an instructor in the ocean on your boat then in Lake Travis- Burrrrr cold. Just a thought.

I will email you a copy; I would like to be involved if possible.
I would gladly help in a support position.

Plus, I might help in talking to a few groups.

 

[rigdiver]

Frank;
Enjoyed the conversation last weekend with you in the wheelhouse on the SEASEARCHER II. Thanks for wanting to take the BOLD step of doing tech in our part of the Gulf of Mexico. I really think the need is there.
I know you've had bad experiences with RB's. Please allow them on your future trips. If they make a mess, make them clean it up. The problems you had were with semi-closed systems. While both have sorb, the differences are huge. A semi-closed unit is depth limited like EANx(not really tech.) The fully closed units are not depth limited and are really a "tech" piece of kit. The level of diver diving a fully closed unit is way higher than someone diving a semi-closed unit. Hence, this should equate to a more responsible passenger. I double bag my used sorb when it's spent on the Seasearcher II. Just dumping used sorb in the trash will have it all over the deck. Bags tear easily.
Gas is a terrible thing to waste!
Regards;
Rigdiver/Bill Childers NAUI 5709L C.D. as in Lead/Sr. DM on SSII

 

[outback]

Just to give you an idea of demand, we have a small tech group based in Houston, 5 or 6 of us at varying levels of OC rec/tech and trimix. There will be at least 3 of us trimix certified by spring next year, so we'll be looking for tech trips in the Gulf. Good to hear that you're kicking this off.

 

[rkon]

You know I'm good to go, Frank, and I'll bring as many friends as I can.
I like the ability to dive to our certification limits, and having dive plans previewed. Would be nice to have gas analysis performed and verified once on board as well.

Gas mixing on board would sure limit multiple sets of doubles, but for a 2-day 3-dive trip it could be handled by a couple of sets per diver, topping off one set for the third dive. If you get into 3-day trips later, then mixing onboard would be a necessity. I would be much more inclined to go on a 3-day trip after the first couple of shakedown cruises.

As someone else wrote, it would be nice to have standard mixes. Then the trimix could be mixed ahead of time in large bottles for top-offs with a booster. There are enough divers out there with their own gas-blending systems, boosters, storage bottles, etc. that it wouldn't be hard to pull it all together.

Seems like drifting ocean deco would only work if the team had the same dive plan and mixes. It would really be tough to keep up with several groups of divers with varying plans, strung out over open ocean.
On the other hand, we planned to use the anchor line at Geyer but didn't see it when it was time to leave the bottom. Luckily there was a line tied between a float and a 5-gallon bucket of cement at 120' that sufficed for deco in the current.

For surface conditions, I'd think you still want to go out in 5' seas or less. Even with someone on board pulling up the deco bottles, scooters, cameras, etc., it could still be a chore reboarding the boat with steel doubles on. Hard to move quickly to get outta the way and not exactly the time you'd want to exert yourself too much anyway.

I don't think you can be too anal going into this for the first time. You'll understand better after the tech classes in Florida I know you have excellent support lined up and lots of qualified advice coming your way; with that you'll be successful.

Looking forward to the opportunity!!!

Richard

We will be running some technical diving trips on the Spree next year. As we are just dipping our toe in the water (so to speak), I need help planning the trips. Thoughts I have had so far...

The boat must carry an instructor certified to teach at the level of the diving being performed for underwater liability insurance to be in effect.. I have an individual who has boldly stepped up to the plate. He is certified to teach anything NAUI/NACD, I don't know about other agencies, so anything goes, as long as it doesn't go beyond NAUI's limits (whatever those are).

If you are certified/qualified to dive it, you may do it. Dive plans must be submitted to the boat ahead of time, and be approved by a commitee of 3 tech instructors. I am not one of them. If you convince them, I will allow it.

Limited to 12 divers. It's the biggest liveaboard in this part of the gulf, but tech divers do tend to have a lot of stuff.

Price will be based on break-even the first year. Fuel will have a telling effect on price.

The questions are:
Where do we go? The Sea Searcher goes to Geyer bank, and although many of you don't believe it, Bruce and I (as well as Christine) are good friends. I don't want to crap in their part of the ocean. There are lots of other banks out there.

Should I supply the gas? I have access to a gas blending system, but I will only pump cylinders to their rated pressure. If you want overfills, you have to bring them yourself.

Can we trust rebreathers? I had two severe accidents on the Spree in 2001, 1 resulting is ongoing damage to the boat (think caustic cocktail and aluminum), the other resulted in severe DCS. Both units were dolphins, neither diver was "fully qualified", although one was a rebreather instructor.

Drifting DECO or anchored DECO

Does anyone really want to go? Do you want to go bad enough to take 2 days off of work? Is 2 days enough?

How many dives per day. My thought is 2 the first, and 1 the second, with a limited run time of 3 hours on the second day. In my conversations with rigdiver, he indicated that he understood our need to be home on time, so all divers need to be up in time for me to turnaround for sport trips the following day.

What are conditions too rough to go in? We call it off at forcasted 6' to avoid the ladder rodeo. Tech divers should be tougher than sport divers, but have more gear.

Am I being too anal? I currently know nothing about extended range, but I do know how divers get hurt/die on boats, and I'd kind of like to avoid that in the future.

Many of these questions will be answered when Melanie and I take our trimix course in Florida this fall. I thought I would see what the local community has to say. We will make it official at DEMA, but an overwhelming response might bring on more and summer trips. Let me know what you think, either here or at spree@gulf-diving.com.

We are doing this to support the tech diving community who have few choices in Texas. I am told that Rick on the UG does a great job in the eastern Gulf, I would like to try it here.

Thanks in advance for your input

Frank

 

[Doc Intrepid]

We will be running some technical diving trips on the Spree next year. As we are just dipping our toe in the water (so to speak), I need help planning the trips. Thoughts I have had so far...

Frank,

Strictly as an aside from an uninformed perspective regarding currents in the Gulf, pump outlets, tides, and (regular) weather patterns...

But a report yesterday from the City of New Orleans Civil Engineers Office indicated that part of the problem was that the water in the city immersed some 1 million lbs of dead shrimp and 1 million lbs of dead chicken from processing plants that were destroyed, and over 1 million lbs of chicken manure from a fertilizer plant. This was fouled even further with rotting corpses of humans, dogs, and other critters, and infused with raw sewage from the entire city as well as industrial chemicals such as benzene from both the pharmeceutical and oil industries. Since it's largely stagnant currently, and won't be moving far for another month or so, it will be a pretty toxic brew by the end of October. Army Corps of Engineers and EPA reports indicate that the millions of gallons of this crap are to be pumped directly into the Gulf, probably throughout November and December.

Your visibility might be significantly impacted...

You might want to find out where the pump outlets will be and see where the Gulf currents are projected to carry this effluvia between, say, January through May...

The EPA will be tracking it, for starters...

(Timing is everything...)

 

[ianr33]

You can put me down as another "definitely interested"

Doing deco on the anchor line/fixed up line seems the way to go. It got a bit crowded at 20 feet on the recent Geyer trip but nothing unmanageable. Having 6 teams of divers each doing 30 minutes or more drift deco in (often) strong currents with one inflateable to chase them sounds like a recipe for chaos.Obviously the chase boat would be needed for anyone that misses the line.

I like the "if you are certified you can dive it idea" Anyone who has spent thousands of dollars to be certified for 300 foot dives is going to feel kind of restricted when asked to keep within a (recreational!!) limit of 130

Maybe a sensible restriction for a first trip would be no hypoxic mixes. i.e. depth limit of ~200 feet,max run time 90 minutes?

This is a new venture for you and obviously you are worried about safety. My opinion is that trained and competant tech divers doing deco dives are going to be a LOT safer than some of the newly minted Open Water divers I have seen at the Flower Gardens. they are not going to "suddenly" realise they are out of air,lose their mask and weightbelt on entry etc etc etc.

Geyer was a great site but was a lot of work for the boat.If this is to be dived regularly could a permanent mooring be installed? (I hereby volunteer for a drilling trip!!)
I would be happy with a trip that went to Stetson and stayed there. We had a great dive on the Sunday morning. Hanging out at 100 feet watching an endless line of sharks cruise by and knowing that we could stay there for another 20 minutes was probably my best dive in the Gulf.

How many other "banks " are there in the area that are no deeper than ,say, 200 feet? I think Bright and Rankin banks come into that category ?

I hope that these trips work out. I know there are a lot of Texas divers who dont go out to the Flower Gardens anymore due to the Purely Recreational aspect of the existing trips.