This happened in my both GUE classes too. The instructor would say something along the lines of "minimum requirements are guidelines for me, not rules for you", and give us the extra 100 yards in the swim test and extra 20 feet in the u/w swim. I also don't think anyone would pass fundies after consistently being 20-30 degrees off horizontal trim and 4-5 feet off target depth.
GUE Fundies Class Review (X-posted by request)
- Thread starter sea_otter
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beester
Contributor
Hey Seaotter, thanks for your reply. Maybe I misread it coming from my background, which is that I have heard this remark from another GUE instructor as well and found it a bit strange, because standards are standards, and this is what makes the certification have value (that all people being certified have been hold up against the same measuring stick).
Of course an instructor will raise the bar, if he senses that the team can handle it. That's what makes a good instructor, identifying the needs of every individual student and the needs of the team and trying to come up with scenarios and problems that raise the taskloading and have you gain as much experience as possible (within the limits set in the curriculum). And of course every instructor has his own way of doing this. That's why I tried to do every GUE course with a different instructor.
Fundies is a bit of a strange course in this regard tho. First of all it's hard for the instructor because you never know what the team make up will be. You could have a student with 5 dives and a student with 1000 dives, or a student who he can sense can reach tec rating quite easily and another student in the same course where he knows he'll need to push hard to get him to provisional. Next there are 2 different measuring sticks (rec and tec rating).
This is no longer the case in tech courses, the playing field is more level (everybody has the same basic skills because they all have a tec rating, although these can always be a bit rusty) and there is just one measuring stick.
Of course an instructor will raise the bar, if he senses that the team can handle it. That's what makes a good instructor, identifying the needs of every individual student and the needs of the team and trying to come up with scenarios and problems that raise the taskloading and have you gain as much experience as possible (within the limits set in the curriculum). And of course every instructor has his own way of doing this. That's why I tried to do every GUE course with a different instructor.
Fundies is a bit of a strange course in this regard tho. First of all it's hard for the instructor because you never know what the team make up will be. You could have a student with 5 dives and a student with 1000 dives, or a student who he can sense can reach tec rating quite easily and another student in the same course where he knows he'll need to push hard to get him to provisional. Next there are 2 different measuring sticks (rec and tec rating).
This is no longer the case in tech courses, the playing field is more level (everybody has the same basic skills because they all have a tec rating, although these can always be a bit rusty) and there is just one measuring stick.
AJ
Contributor
The goal of GUE training, as my instructor put it, is to train and develop better skills. The goal not to just pass minimum standards to get a plastic card to prove you paid for the course. This is exactly why I love GUE training. It makes me a better and more competent diver.
Having said that, Fundamentals has been for me the hardest class ever. Both mentally and physically, but it was worth it. It revealed all my skills weaknesses and gave me tools to improve. And oh boy, did it improve my diving skills
Having said that, Fundamentals has been for me the hardest class ever. Both mentally and physically, but it was worth it. It revealed all my skills weaknesses and gave me tools to improve. And oh boy, did it improve my diving skills
beester
Contributor
The goal of GUE training, as my instructor put it, is to train and develop better skills. The goal not to just pass minimum standards to get a plastic card to prove you paid for the course. This is exactly why I love GUE training. It makes me a better and more competent diver.
Having said that, Fundamentals has been for me the hardest class ever. Both mentally and physically, but it was worth it. It revealed all my skills weaknesses and gave me tools to improve. And oh boy, did it improve my diving skills
What do you mean AJ? There are no min standards, there is just fail, provisional (ie you need to work on one or more aspects of the curriculum to warrant a pass), rec pass (fundies) or tec pass. On the other hand If the plastic card is not important, why do I see so many Dutch guys train at nauseum before the fundies even starts. Maybe because they get a hard on for the tec pass on their plastic card?
just kidding of course The reason I replied to this tread is because I've seen the following discussion " I have a fundies tec pass from instructor A and it's worth more than your fundies tec pass because it's from instructor B, he's much more lenient". Well that is ****** up.
This is getting totally of topic, but in the end for recreational diving I don't really care if the buddy I dive with got a provisional, rec or tec pass. Whether someone was able to do a valve drill in perfect horizontal trim, within a specific time frame (ie tec) or messed it up a bit and couldn't reach his valves (provisional) is not important, attention for the team, awareness is ;-)They are all heroes in my book, because they did something remarkable, participate in a fundies class, which is a lot of hard work. And you can see it in their eyes, they are on top of the "diving world" because they realise after the course "wow I didn't know I could do this but I can!" and also "wow there is still so much to learn and I know how what I need to do to learn it!".
Cheers
OP
sea_otter
Contributor
The scoring convention is spelled out in the course standards document. You get graded on a scale from 1-5 for three categories (buoyancy, trim, and situational awareness). The first two are easy to measure, by anyone, just from the video. Awareness is slightly more subjective, but still seems pretty standardized. My instructor pointed out a couple things I should have paid more attention to, gave me tips on how to improve, and gave me what I thought was a fair score.
I suppose you could make the same argument that someone taking the class in a warm, calm, tropical location has it easier than someone taking it in cold dark waters? But at the end of the day... who cares? It's not about the card. Or maybe it is for the Dutch...
OP
sea_otter
Contributor
KevinNM
Contributor
How long it takes per day varies by the instructor and the student. If the students need more time to understand something or get something to work in the water then the class will be longer than it will if it's made up of couple of highly experienced tech divers who want to get a tech pass for a cave course.
I've been told (by a GUE instructor evaluator) that newer instructors tend to run longer classes than highly experienced instructors, but exactly how that works I don't know.
It also varies by what the the person who set the class up wants. If they want 5 days of diving then it's not a 4 day class.
I've been told (by a GUE instructor evaluator) that newer instructors tend to run longer classes than highly experienced instructors, but exactly how that works I don't know.
It also varies by what the the person who set the class up wants. If they want 5 days of diving then it's not a 4 day class.
lucca brassi
Contributor
We have 4 full days (all day from 9 am to 7 pm in series and last day before evaluation we have to swim 300m) with Tom Karch with almost no breaks.
I want to shoot myself
I want to shoot myself
Anti-Hero
Contributor
Ah the memories... Good job on the pass!
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