GUE and smoking

[alan_lee]

Now, I know that this might be stirring the hornet's nest a bit, seeing the heated discussion at the other folder, but I'd like to seek your view about smoking, esp seeing how GUE lists it as a pre-requisite.

I was discussing about the matter of how a GUE diver had his C-card taken away after he lit up in front of the instructor. Locally (in Singapore), I know of GUE divers who do smoke, but never in front of the instructor (when they're diving with the GUE dive company). So some divers who are trained by an International agency (hope I'm discreet enough ) came in and starting claiming that they've got friends who were smokers, but after their agency's training, decided to quit smoking, and dissed GUE that if they trained thinking divers, GUE wouldn't need to revoke C-cards. Of course, it's the usual anti-GUE troll stuff with really pathetic anecdotal evidence.

But I'm curious about the stance of GUE trainers towards smoking, whether they'd take away someone's c-card after having a quiet word with them prior to doing it. Would also like to hear from the smoker's point of view about GUE's strict view on smoking.

I'm not a smoker (I quit years ago) and have no problems with smokers, would just like to hear the views of the geographically diverse GUE members here. I do hope that the discussion can be carried out in an objective (without getting personal) manner, no matter how strongly we feel, and most importantly, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Steve R]

I guess it is seen as a greater evil than being 75lbs or more, over-weight

Instructors can't take cards away once they have been issued.

GUE (And I think GUE only) reserves the right (As an agency) to request a cert card back. (We're talking user level here).

I think that is roughly how it was worded anyway. I don't smoke so it wasn't high up on my things to read and remember.

Clearly your international agency buddies are smoking something stronger than tobacco, and at least one agency founder in that category was quite vocal about his use, so I guess that it is still OK.

 

[MonkSeal]

Knowing short-term and long-term effects of smoking, I see no-smoking policy as quite correct. It's up to you if you want to apply it to yourself or not. I guess that it comes with GUE training in combination "take it or leave it".

 

[rjack321]

If people want to cheat the system and smoke I don't want to dive with them. I'm not an instructor but I do use the agency's policy to help me find like-minded non-smoking buddies. If you hold a GUE card you agree to be a non-smoker, all the time, not just in front of instructors. So yanking cards is perfectly acceptable to me.

If you don't like it, there are other non-GUE but "DIR" instructors where you can get C-cards from.

 

[BarryNL]

As I understand it, part of the rationale for the non-smoking policy is that smoking produces carbon-monoxide which binds about 300 times more strongly to haemoglobin than oxygen and so reduces the oxygen carrying capability of the blood; this is obviously not considered a good thing when diving.

As far as how it's enforced, I did hear from someone who was on a GUE-F course recently. Another diver who'd managed to get the last spare place showed up for the course, lit up in front of the instructor and was promptly booted off the course before even unloading his car.

 

[College Diver]

Because it was written in the standards, and because I want the GUE-F course of instruction, I quit smoking - after 20 years.

It was the easiest decision I have ever made, and with the help of a prescription pill called Chantix my wife and I were able to effectively mitigate the effects of withdrawal. (that stuff really does work)

I'm glad they don't accept smokers - I made radical improvements in my lifestyle because of that rule, and I don't regret that decision at all

 

[DanLVolker]

There is a good explanation for the no smoking policies of gue at gue.com/Research/Exercise/q1_1c.htm

The diving related reasons appear closer to the last half of the article...most significant to me, if I was to discuss this with a smoker wondering why they should quit, is one of the key concepts of DIR decompression technique--something we use even on normal recreational divers...we use our lungs as a huge filter for bubbles in the blood stream. When you understand how important this is, on either deco or multi-dive days, you tend to adopt all of this technique for good. You do your ascent with your body in a horizontal position, avoiding vertical, due to the far greater effectiveness of the lungs in filtering bubbles, when in the horizontal position...if you have read any of George Irvines articles on how he does decos that are just a fraction of the duration of "traditional deco profiles" , you know why he believes bubbling is something to embrace and utilize, if you are a healthy and fit diver. So as we do our circling, horizontal ascent, and our lungs are vastly more effective in filtering out bubbles than the diver who goes up hand over hand on a rope to the surface, or just swims upward in the vertical orientation---our condition after the dive is much better than that of the verticle diver...and our nitrogen saturation is far lower.
The smoker has destroyed a huge portion of his bubble filtering system, and weakened the walls of the lung as well---presenting themself as a deco liability on any dive of significant duration at depth, or on multi-dive trips. If your buddy ( the smoking instructor) needs to do a deco which is 2 times as long as you do, then he is adding a large negative to your overall margin --he is a liability as a buddy. Remember, you have to stay with him.
And of course, do you want a buddy who makes extremely poor health decisions daily, that impact directly on diving with you--his decision to smoke, is known to him to drastically interfere with his health, yet he ignores this. George would call this a rule number one violation--you don't dive with people that make stupid choices that endanger themselves and others. If the buddy issue is this obvious, clearly the instructor who smokes needs to be canned.
Dan Volker

 

[Thalassamania]

While I agree with all that GUE has say about the dangers of smoking, and I am a non-smoker, I find their attitude pushy and preachy. It is none of GUE's business if someone wants to expose themselves to the dangers of cancer and emphysema. If GUE wants to take on those issues on that basis, how about junk food, McDonald's, too much red meat, Styrofoam cups, plastic containers, etc.?

On the other hand I do not prefer to dive with smokers, the acute effects of smoking compromise the smoker's ability to be an effective team member and I'd rather not have to take on the additional responsibility for someone who is physiologically impaired.

 

[docmartin]

they don't pull the cards from alcoholics or do breathalyzer tests in the morning. also, from what i understand no one pulls the card for gaining too much weight or becoming unfit. it all seems a bit arbitrary.

 

[DanLVolker]

While I agree with all that GUE has say about the dangers of smoking, and I am a non-smoker, I find their attitude pushy and preachy. It is none of GUE's business if someone wants to expose themselves to the dangers of cancer and emphysema. If GUE wants to take on those issues on that basis, how about junk food, McDonald's, too much red meat, Styrofoam cups, plastic containers, etc.?

On the other hand I do not prefer to dive with smokers, the acute effects of smoking compromise the smoker's ability to be an effective team member and I'd rather not have to take on the additional responsibility for someone who is physiologically impaired.

With DIR, your buddy is your absolute responsibility. You can not leave your buddy. If you know a guy will do twice the deco time you will want to do as a safe deco, then you know he is the WRONG buddy for you. If you know a guy will be a serious risk for a lung expansion injury, and this means you would have to be saving him, then you should not allow him to be your buddy. You just do not buddy with accidents waiting to happen. A smoker is an accident waiting to happen, and even if it does not, the smoker increases your risks, instead of decreasing them--which is the point of a buddy.
I don't see this as preachy..I see this as common sense.
DIR is about reducing risks, and increasing the fun potential of a dive. The smoking increases risks, and can not be included in DIR diving.
Dan Volker